Kay Hagan PAC Donations - $146k

PAC Donations according to the FEC...

Kay Hagan... $146,000
Jim Neal.... ZERO

http://herndon1.sdrdc.com/cgi-bin/cancomsrs/?_08+S8NC00239

http://herndon1.sdrdc.com/cgi-bin/cancomsrs/?_08+S8NC00221

And wasn't it Kay Hagan who said not taking PAC money was "unrealistic?"

http://media.www.dailytarheel.com/media/storage/paper885/news/2008/04/25/StateNational/Issues.At.For...

"But Neal, who has never been in politics before and has sworn not to take any special interest or PAC money - something that Hagan calls "unrealistic."

So who is the people's candidate, and who is the special interest's candidate?

Please vote for Jim Neal tomorrow.

Comments

Please comment

I hope Jim Neal wins tomorrow. I'm sick of special interests, like Duke Energy, dictating elections.

Why aren't you honest?

Why don't you outline that a large portion of Kay's PAC money comes from unions...you know...teachers, nurses, carpenters, brick masons? Why are you demonizing union members like this? Are they bad? Is their money bad?

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

Kay Hagan not supported by Teachers Necessarily

She's supported by administrators in Raleigh.. not necessarily by the teachers. I know a bunch of teachers that support Jim Neal over her.

Kay Hagan & Special Interest Groups

This is exactly why I am voting for Jim Neal. Hagan is not working for North Carolinians, she is working for her own gain.

That is a great big steaming pile of poo

You obviously are just chanting like a ditto head and have no idea what you are talking about. Every Democratic congressman in NC gets close to or over 50% of their contributions from PACs. Have you ever heard of UNIONS? What about teachers, nurses, firefighters, carpenters, brick masons....shall I go on? Those are the people who give money to PACs.

I'm sick of people who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, who chant their little mantras without putting any original thought into it whatsoever. "Special Interests" is a Republican talking point or haven't you been paying attention the past few years? John Edwards gave his campaign over $6 million. He didn't need to take money from PACs. Barack Obama has his own home shopping network selling everything he can with his name on it. Nobody else can do that. Democratic candidates need PAC money. Anyone who blindly claims otherwise is simply ignorant of what it takes to get elected.

Ignorant comment. Kay Hagan is not working simply for her own gain.



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Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

EXCUSE ME, BETSY MUSE

Shouldn't an administrator of Blue NC be a little more objective?

"Don't know your ass from a hole in the ground..."

If you're going to make inflammatory comments like this about bloggers, you shouldn't be a Blue NC administrator/moderator.

Nope....I don't have to be any more objective than you do

I call it like I see it. You don't get to come on here and spew crap without getting corrected. If you post inaccurate information I have every right to correct you. You can promote Jim all you want, but if you can't do it without spewing bile then you need to be prepared to handle the results of your spewing.

If you're going to make inflammatory comments like this about bloggers, you shouldn't be a Blue NC administrator/moderator.

OK...I quit. I would rather rip you a new one than be a BlueNC moderator. I'll turn in my moderator and tech badge to James first thing in the morning.



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Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

Rip Me a New One?

Is this what blogging on Blue NC has degraded to?

Submitted by Betsy Muse on Mon, 05/05/2008 - 9:02pm.
I call it like I see it. You don't get to come on here and spew crap without getting corrected. If you post inaccurate information I have every right to correct you. You can promote Jim all you want, but if you can't do it without spewing bile then you need to be prepared to handle the results of your spewing.

If you're going to make inflammatory comments like this about bloggers, you shouldn't be a Blue NC administrator/moderator.

OK...I quit. I would rather rip you a new one than be a BlueNC moderator. I'll turn in my moderator and tech badge to James first thing in the morning.

Dayum......

'cause I was really looking forward to going off. ;-)

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

Thanks

Thank you so much for your comment. I'm really happy that there are educated people (like you) out there to call the ignorant morons (like me) out.

I'm fairly new to the site, and am just getting my feet wet. I apologize for my "chanting like a ditto head". Hopefully, everyone else on this site can be more polite.

You catch more flies with honey.

I'm not trying to catch flies

I wrote a researched piece about PACs just a few days ago because Democrats are supported by these so called special interests and people like Jim Neal, who pander to the right wing by going along with the meme that "all special interests are bad" are stabbing a lot of good Democrats in the back. I'm sorry if I was harsh, but this pops up over and over again and instead of reading and learning, we find Neal supporters just pop back up with the same talking points. It is very frustrating, especially when I've put more than just a few minutes into a researched piece to provde the information so that readers will understand the system a little better. It's frustrating when that is ignored and we hear the same talking points popping up again. It might be the first time you said it, but it isn't the first time I've heard it.

I did not call you a moron, so please don't put words in my mouth. Everyone else polite?.... dont' count on it. This is a blog and at any given time someone is going to go off.



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Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

That's beer, James

The flies are drunk!

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

What is that?

Honey or something? Ewww.

The google machine

barfed that up when I typed in "flies and honey." Could be beer. I could sure use one.

Who the hell wants to catch flies?

I've heard that danged expression about catching more flies with honey, and I always think, SO? I don't want to catch 'em. I want to swat 'em.

Yes, but it is more of a stress reliever

to run around the house screaming at the flies swatting like crazy. Sigh....I know. I've done it. Then you get one and can't find it and realize later that's what the dog was snacking on.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

No, swatting works

I don't have a cat and the dog won't bestir himself in this effort.

Swatting is much easier and irresistibly decisive.

But to give free rein to an earlier analogy (on another thread), you wouldn't want to swat 'em right there at the dinner table. It's unsightly and unsanitary and puts people off their meal.

The host has to -- what with being the host -- avoid nauseating the other guests by finding a way to remove the annoyance without leaving smears. This means luring it away or otherwise causing it to settle peacefully.

That's what I'm sayin'.

This Fly Isn't Interested Anyway

I am not putting words in your mouth, that's why I didn't use quotations.

As far as "not trying to catch flies" goes, I'm not buying it because it sounded like pandering for Hagan votes to me. But what do i know?

The bottom line for me is really that Neal answers questions and is forthright. Placing Hagan against Elizabeth Dole is liek conceding the election. Hagan simply does not have the charisma, presentation skills, directness to win in November. And it is important to me to get Dole out.

Well, I'm going to let you go on believing that

but honestly, Neal doesn't have a snowball's chance in a warm day in North Carolina. He couldn't beat Dole if she was being carted around in a coffin.



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Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

I disagree with that statement, Betsy.

I know Jim may be a long shot to win the nomination tomorrow, but in my opinion he's a much better candidate than Kay Hagan is. He is a forthright, honest man who actually answers the questions he is asked in interviews. He doesn't avoid voters questions - not any question that I've heard asked has been avoided. He is firm in his beliefs and progressive in his outlooks. He is a good public speaker who can hold the interest of a small group of 5 people, or a large group of thousands.

Quite the opposite is true of Kay Hagan. She flat out has refused to answer point-blank questions about how she would vote on important civil rights issues (ENDA, DOMA,etc.)As for her public speaking ability - I've seen teenagers in their first year of forensics do a better job. She's horrible.

If she's our nominee, I'll have to support her, because I can't let Dizzy Dole go unchallenged, but I think it's Hagan who will be melting in the heat of the General Election.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Neal Hagan

I'm supporting Jim but if he loses, I'll vote for Hagan in the general. I won't contribute and I won't work for her, but I'll definitely vote for her.

The big learning for me in this is the stunning failure of the Big Dogs in the Democratic party to mount a first-tier challenge to Dole. That's what should be spotlighted here. For all their supposed acumen in all things political, the DSCC sure sucked in this race. So did Easley. All their collective "wisdom" didn't get Moore or Perdue into the race when the opportunity was there. They didn't get Cooper. They didn't get Martin.

Neal and Hagan will both have a tough time with Dole. Neal's problem will be his recent arrival on the scene - and the fact that he's gay. Hagan's problem will be her miserable record in the NC Senate on representing the people's interests. She'll be relying on coattails.

(Look for a ton of revisionist history about how the Senate has performed. The only good news is ... Dole would have done worse.)

Actually, dear, a majority of North Carolinians

- and Democrats at that - think the way Kay does. They won't think her record is miserable. That is why we don't see progressives elected in statewide races.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

What can I say?

The majority of Americans have been wrong about most important things for most of the history of our republic. That's why I always support "edge" candidates ... those pesky folks who actually understand and speak to the complexity of issues instead of wallowing in sound bites.

Which of course is why I myself couldn't get re-elected to the Chapel Hill Town Council as an incumbent! Anyone who takes any advice from me is even more of an idiot than I am.

J

PS You're right. They won't think her record is miserable because there will be no one to point it out. That tax cut for the wealthy, that disastrous energy bill, and those $40+ million in unnecessary corporate incentives ... all will be forgotten along right with all the primary results.

Yup.

The big learning for me in this is the stunning failure of the Big Dogs in the Democratic party to mount a first-tier challenge to Dole. That's what should be spotlighted here. For all their supposed acumen in all things political, the DSCC sure sucked in this race. So did Easley. All their collective "wisdom" didn't get Moore or Perdue into the race when the opportunity was there. They didn't get Cooper. They didn't get Martin.

Imagine if we didn't have to endure the Perdue/Moore fiasco of a race because on of them agreed to take on Dizzy. Either one of them could have taken her with one hand tied behind their back. As it is, now one of our best Dem. politicians will be out of a job for at least two years.

I'm glad Roy Cooper is concentrating on being AG right now so he can investigate the WVWV robo-call mess, but I still think he would have been the best choice. He's got a terrific record and could have walked that one right into DC. For that matter, why the hell didn't Easley or Jim effing Hunt step up?

But we go with what we've got, and by this time tomorrow, we'll all be on the same team. So everybody have a cup of tea, or a glass of wine, and get some rest. Tomorrow's going to be a long day.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Dole would stomp her flat

Dole would have no trouble squishing Perdue. All that would be left would be Bev's grass-stained thumb and index finger holding up that "pwessus widdle wucky stone!" and some "blub blub blub" sounds from the sod.

Neal might be a good public speaker

but he was awful in the debate. Right off the bat he's talking about issues that no man woman or child would recognize. Instead of connecting with the voters he talked over their heads. Betty Jo at the beauty parlor isn't talking about the "rubric of regulation" of commercial banks. She's talking about Jim Bob who just lost his home. Kay hit that point and Jim didn't. A political debate isn't about sounding smart or smooth. It's about connecting with the people. Jim failed to do that on many of the questions. He did well on a couple, but he was too intent on sounding smart instead of speaking to the voters.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

If you read what he said instead of listening

you will see what I'm saying. He spent most of the time talking over the average voter's head.....and most people are average voters.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

I guess I'm above average.

I wasn't analyzing it for what other people would think. I was listening to what he said. Personally, I don't like to be talked down to. I like to be treated like an adult.

I know that a lot of voters don't take that approach, but it wasn't mine when I was watching and listening to the debate. It's not how I decide for whom to vote. I don't want someone who can dumb things down in the US Senate. I want someone intelligent in there. Before anybody gets upset, I'm not saying Kay Hagan is unintelligent, but her answers in the debate and in her liveblog here showed less of an understanding of the issues that were important to me than Jim Neal's did.

What can I say? All we have to do is look at the White House to see what "dumbed down" speech gets us. I am voting for what I want, not for what I think I can get.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

This is really a moot point anyway,

Betty Jo at the beauty parlor isn't talking about the "rubric of regulation" of commercial banks. She's talking about Jim Bob who just lost his home.

seeing as how Betty Jo and Jim Bob didn't have an opportunity to actually see the debate, unless they frequent places like BlueNC (not likely). So they'll just have to settle for a tv commercial:

"I like that Kay Hagan! She's all about some Green Energy!"

"Yep. That's what we need alright."

Excuse me while I stick my finger down my throat.

Hey ... welcome ECU Greg

Thanks for coming by. It's been a reeeeeeeeelli long primary season and we're pretty much all sick to death of the whole damn business. Most of the time, things are pretty smooth around here. My personal motto: Do good, be nice, have fun. Not that I always adhere to it, but I'm working on it.

Anyway, welcome. Glad you're here.

Ha!

Probably more like having fun.

::snark::

Ha!

Yup...that explains it.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

Thanks

Thanks, James. There is a lot of good information on the site, and it's been helpful in finalizing my ballot.

Kay Hagan-Senate Bill 3 (Duke Energy)

Senate Bill 3 Article from the News and Observer

Sticking it to utility ratepayers
Rick Martinez, Correspondent
If state Senate Bill 3 becomes law, the power companies should throw a big party for the rest of us. That's because every person who pays an electric bill will become an unwilling investor in North Carolina electric utilities, without the benefits of owning company stock, collecting dividends or having a vote.
SB 3 started out as feel-good renewable energy and energy efficiency legislation. However, its major impact is on the fossil fuel and nuclear side of generation. To reduce the significant financial risk to utility companies in building multibillion-dollar coal-fired and nuclear power plants, SB 3 transfers it from private investors, who can cash out of risky projects, to ratepayers, who can't.

This risk and cost transfer is accomplished by allowing power companies to collect the costs of building a new generation unit before it produces even a watt of electricity. There isn't a business owner or corporation that wouldn't love to have that deal. They're stuck persuading banks or the equity markets to finance their projects.

The utilities argue that collecting some of the costs up-front will allow them to secure lower interest rates on construction financing. That lower rate, they contend, benefits ratepayers in the long run.

True, but that's not the whole story. That lower rate is possible only because ratepayers are the captive monetary backstop if construction costs go out of control. Make that, when costs go out of control. Power plants are notorious for cost overruns.

Historically, utilities have been horrible at predicting the price of base load generation. Recent history shows they aren't getting any better at it. Last summer, Duke Energy told the Utilities Commission that an 800-megawatt coal-fired unit at Cliffside would cost $1 billion. Last month, Duke upped the price tag to $1.8 billion. However, that $800 million jump could be chump change if Duke, Progress Energy, the electric cooperatives or municipalities decide to go with nukes.

Though green-power advocates have heaped accolades on SB 3, the greatest financial benefit it bestows goes to nuclear power. On top of construction costs, SB 3 also sticks ratepayers with the developmental costs of "potential" nuclear units. That means a utility could collect revenue on a nuclear plant that exists only on paper. This provision is so generous, it's essentially an incentive for the utility companies to go nuclear.

If all that weren't bad enough, SB 3 allows the utilities to cast a wider revenue net by saddling ratepayers with constructions costs for plants in other states (provided some of that power is dedicated to North Carolina), and even for units that eventually get canceled.

Under SB 3, the Utilities Commission is the only body standing between the power companies and our wallets. The commission is charged with putting the brakes on any unreasonable costs the utilities may want to recover up-front. North Carolina has an able commission and dedicated staff, but they simply do not have the technical resources or manpower to make a meaningful determination. For information and expertise, they'll either depend on the utility asking for the rate increase or on industry consultants. Care to guess how that will turn out?

If all this is news to you, you're not alone. SB 3 has been an insiders' deal from the get-go. Public debate has been virtually nonexistent. Those who testified before the crucial Senate Finance Committee last week were given only two minutes to speak.

As short as the committee's treatment of these speakers was, even worse was the vote. The committee passed SB 3 without any serious financial analysis of its total impact on consumers. The renewable energy portion of this bill has been thoroughly vetted, but the construction cost element remains a deep, dark mystery.

The full Senate passed SB 3 yesterday. Now it's up to the House to fix this mess before it's unleashed on unsuspecting consumers. At the very least, public hearings explaining this bill should be held across the state. Better yet, the House should split SB 3 into two pieces of legislation. I don't much care for the renewable energy part, but I abhor the utilities' attempt to use it as cover to escape the scrutiny of private investors and the marketplace.

Contributing columnist Rick Martinez formerly worked at the association of North Carolina electric cooperatives. He can be reached at rickjmartinez2@verizon.net.

My Favorite Line

SB 3 has been an insiders' deal from the get-go. Public debate has been virtually nonexistent. Those who testified before the crucial Senate Finance Committee last week were given only two minutes to speak.

Logical fallacy

Your juxtaposition of the PAC money amounts and Hagan's "unrealistic" comment is disingenuous. It seems to imply that Hagan claimed that she wouldn't accept PAC money. The fact that Hagan accepted money from PACs doesn't make her statement false; she's saying that it's unrealistic to believe that a person can be elected in this race without taking PAC money.

So far, the data seem to be proving Kay right. After raising $1.5 million and buying some TV time, her numbers shot up. Neal's haven't. She won the money race and she's now 30 points up in the latest PPP poll. You can argue about whether that's right (as in "how the system should be set up"), but that's how it is.

Dole has a war chest of nearly $4 million. Overcoming that will take a huge amount of money. Without a rock star like Obama, that kind of money simply isn't going to be raised in the way that Neal is trying to raise money.

(I haven't plowed through the FEC filings like Betsy (and scharrison, I think, also did), so I can't speak much to which PACs gave money to Hagan. I seem to remember that they discussed it a lot in a post by scharrison, didn't they?)

Yes, we've disgu...discussed it

a few times, and I discussed it (with myself) some more here, but you're right: the system is set up a certain way, and Kay is taking part just like the vast majority of Democratic (and Republican) candidates have done and continue to do.

But here's the thing: the system has given us a Democratic majority in Congress, but it hasn't given us what (most of us) really want, which is change. Not barely perceptable change, but real change. And I don't believe we're going to get that kind of change until we arrest the influence-peddling that has such a profound impact on our government. That's why we need to give credit to candidates like Jim Neal, instead of punishing him for "not winning the money race".

I can see a future where money doesn't play a major role in the selection of our leaders. But in order to get there, a whole lot more candidates need to have the willpower to say, "No."

No...it has nothing to do with will power

Either the system changes for everyone, all at once, over night or we stop shooting Democrats in the back. It takes money to win an election. We start requiring that Democrats turn it down, then we can just hand the keys to Washington back to the Republicans. We push for transparency and we can push for a different system, but we don't accuse Good Democrats of not having will power. Brad Miller has will power. David Price has will power. Mel Watt has will power. G.K. Butterfield has will power.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



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Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

You mean (tremble)...

...a race in which candidates actually win on the strength of the appeal of their positions?

I would like to see that. I just don't quite know how to get there. I don't think that tying our hands behind our backs is the answer. In this particular election, doing so leaves Dole in office. The fact that he's getting clobbered right now by a few ads indicates that he just wouldn't be able to cut it against Dole. Kay hasn't even really run against Neal. She hasn't paid for any attack ads or any of the things the we all know that Dole will do.

Politics is awash in money. Some candidates can pay for themselves - John Edwards, c. 1998; some can rock star out of it - Barack Obama, c. now (Go O!). I'm sorry, I don't know how to change the way things work for most candidates. I give Neal credit for putting himself forward and I'm not punishing him for his stance. That's just how the election's going so far.

Oh, and...

props for the nice attack of the homonyms (or homophones?) in your post's title!

I love it!

Wordplay is so much fun.

It's a homophone,

and I used it to infer the way our bickering has made us feel. I do not enjoy fighting with Betsy (or anyone here), and I do not enjoy being forced to go negative against Democrats in my blogging/commenting.

But public exposure to this race has been manipulated. A regional and free televised debate was turned down by the Hagan campaign, and the only reason she agreed to the SpartanTV thing was because she knew only a handful of people would get to see it.

Yes, it's all Kay's fault

It's Kay's fault Jim didn't raise enough money to do television. It's Kay's fault that she did the strategically correct thing and did not provide Jim free air time until after the polls showed he could not catch up. It's Kay's fault that Jim would have still talked over the heads of voters and discussed the rubric of banking regulation if he had been given free air time in a regional debate. It's Kay's fault that Jim doesn't really know where he stands on what to do in Afghanistan. It's all Kay's fault.

Public exposure has not been manipulated. If Jim had raised more money since...as you recall his fundraising expertise was touted early on as a bonus....if he had raised more money he would have run television ads and if he had, I'm about 90% sure they would have been negative b/c that's how his press operation was run.

Kay has run a masterful campaign and I am certainly impressed by it. She is on top of everything and while the people who work in her campaign did come from other campaigns, they are hard working, smart, funny people. Some came from Chris Dodd's campaign. These are people like Will Cubbison who wants to make a living doing this.....not high dollar DC types. (Just ask them!)

Oh....and Kay running against Elizabeth Dole....that is HOW you run a clean primary. You differentiate yourself from the Republican....not the other Democrat. It is no more arrogant for Kay Hagan to say she's running against Elizabeth Dole than it is for Jim Neal to say he is the only one who can beat Elizabeth Dole. Kay Hagan has made progress against Dole as witnessed in the last poll because she has been running against Dole. Had Jim chosen to do the same thing he might be further ahead in the polls than he is. You won't beat Dole waiting until May 7 to start your campaign against her.

You weren't forced to go negative. You chose to go negative.



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Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

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