Uh-Oh...

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Photos from the Winston-Salem Tax protests this afternoon.

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Let's hope "Armed and Dangerous Lady" and "Yes We Can Stop Him Man" don't get together and come up with any solutions to this current crisis...
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He's Baaack! Vernon Robinson, in fatigues, tells his supporters that "You are the militia." Seriously.

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Comments

Holy shit.

Vernon! You win, Frank.

Well...

Now that the Democrats are carrying the Bush administration banner of foreign policy interventionism, domestic surveillance, bailouts of Wall Street, and massive expansion of government spending/borrowing/inflating, the likelihood of libertarians and Democrats agreeing on much may be gone.

Oh, and libertarians certainly do resent having the anti-government message co-opted by a bunch of "ex"-fascists. These tea parties are dumb because they've incorrectly identified Obama's policies as socialist when the are probably closer to fascist (admittedly, it is a fine line to draw). Obama's not a marxist, he's a corporate puppet. Or, to put it in terms more appropriate for tea-bagging purposes, Wall Street has him by his Goldman Sachs.

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"The natural wage of labor is its product." -- Benjamin R. Tucker
A liberal is someone who thinks the system is broken and needs to be fixed, whereas a radical understands it’s working the way it’s supposed to.

Where was this?

Frank, you should have called me. I would loved to have seen this idiocy and repellant morality on display.

-- A liberal originally from Yadkin County. Did I just blow your mind?

Left my phone at home...

I had no idea that it was going to be this huge!

I have to...

snort

n/t

Atlas Shrugged

If one more wing nut pro-ports "Atlas Shrugged" as somehow prophetic... Rand was a hedonist. And wasn't Alan Greenspan a member of The Collective? So we should see where laissez-faire capitalism gets us.

JA

If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could have freed thousands more.

Harriet Tubman (1822 – 1913)

Mighty White

Mighty White by the way.

JA

If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could have freed thousands more.

Harriet Tubman (1822 – 1913)

Astroturf!111

You see, all of these people are just there because they've bought into a hyped-up media gimmick. The Obama rallies on the other hand....

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"The natural wage of labor is its product." -- Benjamin R. Tucker
A liberal is someone who thinks the system is broken and needs to be fixed, whereas a radical understands it’s working the way it’s supposed to.

What are they protesting anyway?

Exactly what ARE these folks protesting against, "Dr. Quigley"?

The proposed 3% marginal rate tax increase on millionaires?

Obama's proposed tax rate cut for Americans below $250,000 in household income--the vast majority of us?

The first non-white American president in history?

Based on their display materials in these photos, it's tough to be sure which is the case. Perhaps all of the above.

Dan Besse

Perhaps it is...

... the $2+ trillion dollar budget deficit? (http://blog.mises.org/archives/009633.asp)
... the future tax increases that will undoubtedly be necessary to pay back the borrow funds with interest?
... the totally irresponsible "stimulus" package that will be used to build ridiculous projects such as the proposed 421 extension in Watauga County?
... the TRILLIONS of totally unaccountable funds that have been printed into existence by our national banking cartel (the Fed)? Seriously, it's over 5 trillion they have "allocated" to protect the banksters without even consulting Congress.
... the hundreds of billions of dollars being spent to bail out banks and people who bought houses that they couldn't afford? (many of the bailouts being done with zero Congressional approval)
... the inflation that is going to be created by the printing of all of this money? (which is of course, simultaneously the most regressive form of taxation and the form of taxation most ignored by "progressives")
... the fact that the treasury department is literally run by Wall Street insiders?
... the bailouts of automakers while small businesses are left to fail?
... the fact that not a single member of Congress has been investigated for their connections to Wall Street and the financial crisis?
... the fact that the very same government institutions and individuals that caused this crisis (Fed, Treasury, GSE, Congress) are having their power greatly EXPANDED as a result?
... the fact that everyone is ignoring a $50-80 TRILLION underfunding of our entitlement system, which is set to collapse within the next two decades (at the latest)?

Look. Our country is already insolvent, and now we are moving quickly towards total bankruptcy. Our system is rotten to the core. 99.9999999999% of our government is unelected. Nothing has changed but the figurehead. The same interests are still running the show, and they will continue to rob us blind unless we do something about it.

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"The natural wage of labor is its product." -- Benjamin R. Tucker
A liberal is someone who thinks the system is broken and needs to be fixed, whereas a radical understands it’s working the way it’s supposed to.

Do what?

Are you with Governor Perry in Texas? Ready to secede? Ready to go to armed insurrection? Wishing John McSame were pretzldent? What's the answer, Doc? What's the path forward? Term limits? Move to New Zealand? Help me out here.

Makes you wonder how deep in debt

we would be if we did nothing or gave the rich like Dr. Q here a bigger tax break.

no u!

You're rich. Not only do you have computer and internet access, you also have enough leisure time to surf blog sites and make baseless accusations about people with whom you disagree.

PS: even if I was rich, how would my tax rate have any effect on your personal debt levels? I'd love to see an articulation of that logic chain.

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"The natural wage of labor is its product." -- Benjamin R. Tucker
A liberal is someone who thinks the system is broken and needs to be fixed, whereas a radical understands it’s working the way it’s supposed to.

"solutions"

1. No, Perry is an asshole and a political opportunist who is merely attempting to take advantage of populist sentiment for his own gain. He is such a typical slime ball politician.

2. I fully support secession. It's a democratic principle of self-determination. I give my best wishes to the secessionist movements in Vermont, Alaska, Texas, and elsewhere. We need local government. Local governments are more accountable. Local governments don't have printing presses. Local governments don't have armies. Local governments don't spy on us. Decentralize, decentralize, decentralize across the board. Too bad we are moving in the exact opposite direction (and have been for many years).

3. I don't endorse violence but I think that people should take the collective right "to alter or abolish" government seriously since it certainly has become destructive of our rights. I agree with George Orwell that "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."

4. John McCain would have stacked his administration with essentially the same people as Obama has. His policies would simply have a more militant nationalist slant (even though he would embrace international governance). No change.

5. Term limits are a great idea. Too bad 99% of the government isn't even elected. The system is running on momentum.

6. New Zealand isn't a terrible idea.

Truth is, there really isn't a solution. The United States of America is headed for a Soviet-style collapse largely for the same reasons that the Soviet Union collapsed (futile/wasteful occupation of Afghanistan is just icing on the cake of the comparison). I'm more concerned with what we are going to replace it with (nothing, preferably). My personal philosophy is pretty much summed up at http://all-left.net

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"The natural wage of labor is its product." -- Benjamin R. Tucker
A liberal is someone who thinks the system is broken and needs to be fixed, whereas a radical understands it’s working the way it’s supposed to.

Ya think maybe the Republicans

shouldn't have pissed away the $127 billion surplus they inherited from Clinton? Where were all the protests while the Bush/Republican regime was racking up debt over the past 8 years? They just sat on their asses and watched.



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

good question

Yea, where were the protests? I don't remember any on the left protesting the deficits. Now I have great respect for all those who protest the moronic and immoral foreign policy (and understand that opposition to senseless death and destruction comes first), but Democrats were voting for the prescription drug bill, the wars overseas, the bloated "defense" budget, etc.

If you limit your view of the world through a partisan filter you end up making the same mistake that many of the tea party protesters have made (blaming the "democrats" for everything).

On the political parties: "The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can throw the rascals out at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy. Then it should be possible to replace it, every four years if necessary, by the other party, which will be none of these things but will still pursue, with new vigor, approximately the same basic policies."

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"The natural wage of labor is its product." -- Benjamin R. Tucker
A liberal is someone who thinks the system is broken and needs to be fixed, whereas a radical understands it’s working the way it’s supposed to.

We on the left don't have our very own Cable TV news network

to cover our protests. Instead we have to work on the ground by going door to door and talking to our neighbors, you know, community organizing.

Boo Hoo

The left/progressive movement has been co-opted by the establishment for so long (literally since the 1910s) you just don't even realize how much coverage your ideology receives from the major cable news networks (weapons of mass deception). The media's fawning over the "savior" Obama was just ridiculous - so absurd I was actually hoping it would cause some of you on the left to realize that the Obama campaign was the slickest corporate project in American history. I saved a bunch of the magazine covers from the inauguration day just so I could show my kids what propaganda is.

The worst thing FOX news ever did was being so terrible that it made CNN look like a reasonable news source. I can't believe you would boo hoo about not having an overtly leftist cable news station - try being an advocate of any ideology outside of the little mainstream box in which the "right-left" debate occurs.

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"The natural wage of labor is its product." -- Benjamin R. Tucker
A liberal is someone who thinks the system is broken and needs to be fixed, whereas a radical understands it’s working the way it’s supposed to.

Yeah, because they had BAD POLITICAL STRATEGIST.

The DEMS of the Early 2000's were always worried about how the Republican Strategist were going to paint them. Instead of leading and being Proactive they were being REACTIVE. They were always on the defensive. UNTIL THE GRASSROOTS STARTED SPITTING FIRE From THE INTERNET. Then the DEMS in Washington felt like they had a little cover to say how they really felt. But they still voted like COWARDS. Many of them voted for the War and Supported Bush with out asking any questions and with placing any limits to his power. Yeah we dems did a pretty piss poor job of Monitoring and Checking BUSH. We let that Idiot run wild. Democrats were acting like Scared little kids being bullied in the halls at elementary. BUT NOW We are Grown and have put childish things aside. We have LEARNED how to lead by watching BUSH MAKE PAINFUL MISTAKE THAT WE VOW NOT TO MAKE. Thanks to BUSH we have a NEW PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT RISE FROM THE ASHES LIKE THE PHOENIX. We have the Power to bring about change and we are going to do just that. Regardless of who or what (NEO-CONservativism) stands in our way.

Anthony D. Hall,

Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!

Ah

So now that the phoenix has risen from the ashes, you have *drumroll* elected Obama? The Obama that voted in favor of domestic spying and telecomm immunity? The Obama that is sending more soldiers to die in the occupation of Afghanistan? The Obama that voted for the banker bailout bill? The Obama that has adopted Bush's Iraq plan? The Obama that has kept Bush's secretary of defense? The Obama that has stacked his administration with Washington/Wall Street insiders? The Obama pushing for RECORD deficits?

Color me impressed.

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"The natural wage of labor is its product." -- Benjamin R. Tucker
A liberal is someone who thinks the system is broken and needs to be fixed, whereas a radical understands it’s working the way it’s supposed to.

Obama isn't the Progressive Movement.

The Movement is BIGGER THAN OBAMA. Now yes I voted for Obama. And I was kind of not sure at first who to vote for. There weren't any really strong candidates on the Dem side other than Hillary. God KNOWS I wasn't voting Republican.

I even entertained the Idea of voting for Ron Paul because he was strong against the War and I liked his trade policy ideas. Ron Paul is a brilliant man. Too bad he is a Republican.

So I decided to go for Obama only AFTER HE WON IOWA. I like many in the African American Community would have been happy to pull for Hillary if he had never won Iowa. That changed the whole dynamic. PLUS he was against the WAR even though he wasn't in congress at the time of the vote. I am a Social Liberal if you like Labels. And I support Strong Progressive Policies. Education. Healthcare, Rebuilding Our Communities Reducing Poverty, Creating Jobs.

Exactly where are the Republicans on these issues???? Like I thought. Well anyway. Barack Obama and I share many of the same views and opinions on THESE ISSUES. We can work on the rest latter. As long as I see him working on THESE issues he want have to worry about any Friendly Fire Coming from me on the Hall Report http://hallstyle.blogspot.com or on this site. He has my full support as long as he takes care of My Core Issues that I just laid out.

Anthony D. Hall,

Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!

Hillaryous <-- Get it?

There weren't any really strong candidates on the Dem side other than Hillary.

lol?

Too bad he is a Republican.

Sure, no one wants to catch cooties.

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"The natural wage of labor is its product." -- Benjamin R. Tucker
A liberal is someone who thinks the system is broken and needs to be fixed, whereas a radical understands it’s working the way it’s supposed to.

I'm serious

I really liked Ron Paul. I still do. He is the direction or I should say people like him are the direction that the Republican Party should start to move towards. I know Ron is a spring chicken and he is getting up their in age. But I hope that he can still let his voice be heard. It is funny during the Debates the GOP all but Called Ron Paul a Lunatic. None of those Good Strong CONservatives treated him with the Respect he deserved now all of them Want to be him. Very Ironic.

Anthony D. Hall,

Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!

I don't ask questions just

I don't ask questions just for the sake of asking questions. I want answers. You thought I didn't notice you trying to slip past my question.

I am a Social Liberal if you like Labels. And I support Strong Progressive Policies. Education. Healthcare, Rebuilding Our Communities Reducing Poverty, Creating Jobs.

Exactly where are the Republicans on these issues????

Anthony D. Hall,

Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!

I wouldn't know

Since I'm not a Republican, I can't tell you their platform on "Education. Healthcare, Rebuilding Our Communities Reducing Poverty, Creating Jobs."

Personally, I think the "progressive" approach to these issues is misguided because it relies on the use of violence instead of peaceful cooperation. All systems based on violence are inherently unstable, and it only takes a crisis to reveal the underlying problem.

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"The natural wage of labor is its product." -- Benjamin R. Tucker
A liberal is someone who thinks the system is broken and needs to be fixed, whereas a radical understands it’s working the way it’s supposed to.

Not a republican?

I hear a lot of CONS say that. "I'm an Independent" Please! Lets not try to fool each other hear. I beg to differ. Based on what I have read on this site you seem to be on the Republican end of the Spectrum regardless what you want to call yourself. Well since your are not a republican how would you handle those issues?

Anthony D. Hall,

Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!

Doesn't hold water.

Sorry Doc, if this crowd was really interested in any of those issues, they'd have been out there freaking out about the incredible Bush fiscal irresponsibility. Nope, they (or their string-pullers)are just stirred up over the progressive leanings of the current spending--and judging by their choice of flag desecration themes, they've got some screaming racists among them as well. No surprise there.

Dan Besse

Some of them, sure

Yea, a lot of them are just "sheeple" conservatives who have to take marching orders from their controllers (idiots like Glenn Beck). But this isn't something limited to republicans. I attended several Obama rallies and met countless people who didn't have the slightest understanding of any major issue, besides, of course, the fact that Obama was "black" and looked "presidential".

Then again, there are a lot of people at these tea parties who are pissed about the things I listed. The Ron Paul supporters, by and large, hated Bush. They were the ones who came up with the tea party idea, and are the organization behind a lot of the anti-tax activism. If anything their message has been hijacked and diluted by partisans - but that doesn't mean their message doesn't ring true. It's not a valid reason for ignoring the concerns I listed.

You need to visit Wake Forest University on Monday where Ron Paul will be speaking for himself.

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"The natural wage of labor is its product." -- Benjamin R. Tucker
A liberal is someone who thinks the system is broken and needs to be fixed, whereas a radical understands it’s working the way it’s supposed to.

And I have the answer!

Lets do away with NAFTA NOW! Why are we beating around the BUSH! We all know that it wasn't the housing market that was at the center of this crisis. Actually the housing crisis is just a side affect that affects the WHOLE BODY! The MASS EXODUS OF THE MANUFACTURING INDUSTRY IS THE REASON FOR THE ECONOMIC CRISIS. Capitalism doesn't work. We should have NEVER ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN. Greed for cheap labor has destroyed this once great economy. And lets face we can't compete with China and the rest of Asia when it comes to Labor. So what has happen is that more jobs have gone overseas. which means MORE COMPETITION for JOBS. Which DRIVES down the OVERALL COST OF LABOR, and increasing UNEMPLOYMENT. While the Nation slowly shifts from an Production Based Economy to and DEBT BASED Economy. People start to buy almost EVERYTHING through debt. Which is good for Banks in the short term but not long term. With the Economy being Debt Based the Politicians need away to Guarantee that DEBT! Credit Default Swaps and Derivatives came out of that need. Once that was done. They decide that since there was so much debt out there that they could make a killing selling it. Mortgage Backed Securities. EVERYONE BOUGHT INTO THAT if they knew it or not.

With Jobs going overseas and companies at home DOWNSIZING So that they don't have to go overseas, people are defaulting on their mortgages in a high rate. The banks really don't care because at that point the economy was still good and they could still sell that debt before it became a huge problem to them. Companies like AIG insured that Bad debt just in case the mortgages failed and in some cases people involved in the insuring process were hoping that the mortgages failed or defaulted or forclosed on what ever you want to call it they were betting on it. When you get a chance just Google Jeff Green real estate mogul, or better yet.

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/12/15/money-winners-of-2008-jeff-greene-shorted-subprime/

You see the game was along as thing were going good that nobody would notice what all these smart guys were doing. But they forgot one key component. WORKERS. With out a strong middle class the economy want sustain itself for long. These smart guys forgot that when they started sending GOOD PAYING AMERICAN JOBS OVERSEAS to cheap ASIAN LABOR SWEATSHOPS!

Anthony D. Hall,

Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!

Eh, I concur only in part.

Of course we should do away with NAFTA entirely. While we are at it we should leave the UN, the WTO, and abandon the IMF and World Bank. These are all institutions and governance systems designed to benefit the multi-national corporations.

We should adopt Switzerland's foreign policy. If every nation did that, there would be no wars.

I don't agree, however, that the manufacturing exodus is the underlying cause of this crisis - that would be the business cycle produced by artificially-low interest rates created by the Federal Reserve banking cartel. Blaming it on greed is like blaming a plane crash on gravity.

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"The natural wage of labor is its product." -- Benjamin R. Tucker
A liberal is someone who thinks the system is broken and needs to be fixed, whereas a radical understands it’s working the way it’s supposed to.

Maybe

But from here in Eastern North Carolina, I have seen Plant after Plant after Plant close up shop over the Last 15 years. The Textile industry is all but non existent. Tobacco is dwindling. And what used to be a growing Industrial Area is all most reduced to just a few really good paying plants left. And those plants are laying off at an alarming rate. In attempts to keep the doors open. I work for a muli national corporation with plants all over the country and they have laid off all most all the Personnel that were anywhere close to retirement. All the Engineers that more than about 4 years with the company were laid off in favor of Younger Less experienced Cheaper fresh out of college engineers. The same thing for Purchasing Agents and the list goes on. I can assume that this hasn't just started. With Companies focusing on Lean Manufacturing they are cutting cost any chance they get.

If you don't have a job or are working for far less than what you once were capable of making I think that would have a huge impact on if you are going to pay your mortgage or not. Thank God for that socialist FDIC, AND UNEMPLOYMENT CHECKS. I do believe that people would be robbing, stealing, and killing at a lot higher rates if it weren't for those "Social Safety Nets" that have stood the test of time.

Anthony D. Hall,

Fighting for Truth, Justice, Freedom and the American Way!

They're protesting the ass-kicking they got in November

That's all. They're mad that Bush proved to be such an albatross and they desperately want to find somebody to blame. Of course, they're afraid that if they look in the mirror it will crack and damn them to seven more years of bad luck.

John Stewart got it right

he said that the r's are confusing Socialism with loosing!

Grasping at straws there Dr.Q

they don't even compare. You see grass roots means that it was started by We the People. Astroturf means it was fabricated by Faux News, a few whiney r's and a bunch of millionaires who don't want to contribute their fare share to the economy.

As Ed says, they don't want to pay their fare share of taxes but they claim to "Support the Troops". Please help me understand how we pay for our military (Socialism) our Police (Socialism) our schools (Socialism) our Medicare and Medicade (double Socialism) without taxes.

Today in the New York Times, Paul Krugman has an op-ed piece pointing out how embarrassing it is to watch this public display of stupidity.

But everything that critics mock about these parties has long been standard practice within the Republican Party.

Thus, President Obama is being called a “socialist” who seeks to destroy capitalism. Why? Because he wants to raise the tax rate on the highest-income Americans back to, um, about 10 percentage points less than it was for most of the Reagan administration. Bizarre.

Where were these tea baggers during the Reagan Administration? How about the Bush Administration? This is nothing more than a continuation of subjagation psychology. This is done by convincing the people who only watch Faux or CNN or listen to Limbaugh to get their opinions that their tax cuts are a BAD thing and the the tax increases for the wealthy is BAD and needs to be reversed.

If it weren't for the 26% of humanity that need to be lead by the nose, the r party would already be defunct

You Go Mo!

Where you been, woman?



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Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Like I've Said

Of course it's not really economic socialism - it's economic fascism. And you're totally right that Obama isn't really doing anything different than Bush, Clinton, or Reagan. Whoa, it's almost as if they are all the same.

I guess that means we can't protest terrible policies. I guess we can't speak out against the war in Afghanistan now that Obama is "surging" it with troops. I guess we're all Fox news republicans since we are concerned about $2+ trillion deficits. haha

ooooooh stereotypes - I thought that was a republican strategy (dismissing the importance of citizen protests by appealing to stereotypical characterizations of the protesters). Karl Rove has taught you well.

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"The natural wage of labor is its product." -- Benjamin R. Tucker
A liberal is someone who thinks the system is broken and needs to be fixed, whereas a radical understands it’s working the way it’s supposed to.

Watching this insanity

and wondering where they will take it.

Raleigh Tea Party

Photos:
http://picasaweb.google.com/jerimee.richir/RaleighTeabagFestival

John Locke Foundation, Civitas, and Americans for Prosperity helped Fox News Corp organize Raleigh's Tea Party. Event staff had yellow t-shirts that read "Staff - Right Wing Militia." An inside joke I suppose.

A 21 year old employee of the John Locke Foundation gave a speech in which she claimed that she was the "real" victim of the economy: "I'm, like, so mad."

Mike Munger also claimed to be a victim, saying that taxes are spent on "cocaine dealers." Went on to deliver generic attacks against Democrats and folks who vote for Democrats.

A statement from Senator Richard Burr was read in which he expressed his deep sadness that he couldn't be there in person. Statement continued that Obama has "doomed our country."

You're right, Jerimee

The "real" victims, as you've termed it, are the poor and jobless. It's a good thing we have the always benevolent, all-loving, all-caring Democrats in control of state government. Hold on. Aren't those the same people who are targeting the poor with a lottery, stealing the funds from kids' education to pay off irresponsible debt spending, and trying to raise taxes on beer and cigarettes and balance the budget on the backs of the poor? My bad. I must have confused NC Democrats with people who actually give a damn about the poor.

Your pic won't load

Mike Munger spoke, I really thought he was an intelligent, thinking man, geez, guess I was wrong.

pics won't load?

let me know if anyone else is having this problem - just started using Picasa, maybe I'm doing something wrong

Regarding Munger, yeah I was about to leave, but I heard the WPTF radio blowhard (Bill Lamaye?) introducing Munger so I decided to stay and listen. It was pretty disappointing. He got the crowd to chant "no more crap" but didn't have much more to say beyond that. When in Rome, I guess.

Followed you link

couldn't get an idea of crowd size, were there many? Did you talk to any of them, ask any questions?

talking to them

The turnout was 2000 or so (greater than 1k and less than 3k).

The speakers for the event did a good job of staying on message: the economy is doomed and the only way to fix it is to eliminate the government.

The crowd, on the other hand, was frightening. While many people were well-behaved some, mostly middle aged white men, couldn't restrain themselves from shouting out curses.

A group near me tried to start a chant of "Nazi Hagan" and speakers would get interrupted by some lone idiot yelling "frak Obama."

I didn't really get a chance to talk to anyone. When I did attempt to have a conversation with one group of folks they told me to "go home Obama scumbag ACORN bitch" but only after I was already walking away.

Sounds like that 26% are the classy ones

thanks for wading in Jerimee, how many showers did you take when you got home?

Sounds more like a mob to me

Was there any meaningful dialogue there that did not involve some kind of insult?

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