Welcome to BlueNC, John Autry

As I mentioned on Friday, it seems like a good idea to make sure BlueNC is a fair and balanced forum for all comers. That's why I've invited John Autry to join us tonight. He'll be here with us starting around 6 pm for about an hour.

John is a native North Carolinian, born and raised here. He served in the Navy between 1972 and 1976. John has a good, solid website that does a far better job than I can in explaining who he is and what he stands for. Please check it out. His positions on various issues can be found here..

Knowing that many of you have strong feelings about the NC-8 contest, I hope you'll keep your questions respectful and focused on the thing that matters most: defeating Flipper Hayes.

Questions from the previous thread:

Why did you decide to run in the 8th.

Did you support Larry Kissell's run against Hayes in the last election, if so, how?

Please explain his positions on immigration rights, women's rights and gay rights.

Where do you stand on the FISA bill that proposes immunity for telecom companies?

Can you explain your position on this administration's intrusion on our civil liberties?

How do you differ from the current administration in terms of veterans affairs and issues?

Lots of good and tough questions . . . and they may not all get answered in an hour. As have other guests, I hope John will circle back over the next couple of days to pick up any strays.

Comments

Thanks for joining us, John

Flipper Hayes is personally responsible for the disastrous policy in North Carolina called "abstinence only" education. Where do you stand on sex education in public schools?


Hello all

I believe our children need to be prepared for life. One of the aspects of that is education. I believe it is irresponsible of us to consider abstinence only as a viable way to prepare our young people for life. Education is power and a clear way to cut down unwanted pregnancies.

If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could have freed thousands more.

Harriet Tubman (1822 – 1913)

That's what I like to hear.

Thanks again for the visit tonight.

PS Where were you stationed in the Navy? I was at Little Creek, Norfolk Naval Station and finally Camp Lejeune.

Forgot to ask one big question

Are you gay?

Just kidding.

But I wouldn't be surprised to find that becoming a staple of press interviews for any candidate in the future. And I hope every candidate would have the integrity and grace to handle it the way Jim Neal did.

Gee thanks...

for making me spew soda all over My desk.

Left on 49

Yer welcome.


"If boiling people alive best served the interests of the American people, then it would neither be moral or immoral." Max Borders, Civitas Institute

Naval Hospital, Portsmouth, VA

That was my first duty station. I worked in oral surgery, facial trauma. Mostly from Vietnam. I was there when the POWs returned and assisted in their initial interviews about their prisoner experience.

The last 2.5 years I was at a dental clini at Camp Pendelton where we treated the Marines of First Recon.

If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could have freed thousands more.

Harriet Tubman (1822 – 1913)

Answers to diary questions.

Why did you decide to run in the 8th.

This country was founded on the ideals of equality, liberty, and justice for all. These are ideals as grand as any nation could set for itself, but they are not so easily attained. This is why America has always been a work in progress; a diverse society of people aspiring to fulfill this dream. This is the "promise" of America. It is this promise that gives us our national values and provides our moral compass.

The conservative philosophies of Robin Hayes, this administration, and others are bringing this nation and the 8th district to its knees. Unfair trade legislation, needless war, lack of healthcare and poor nutrition, the erosion of social services and educational opportunities and quality jobs are a fraction of the concerns that need to be addressed for the 8th district and the nation.

Because of these philosophies, our people live in fear. Fear of war and retaliation, fear of losing our jobs, fear of rising healthcare cost and fear of recession, depression and the devaluation of our dollar. This needs to change.

The people of the 8th district have had conservative government for too long and now have an opportunity to vote in their best interest and put progressive democratic values in place that will serve the people.

I am running because I believe that it is up to each one of us to be the power for change we hope to see in the world as we work towards fulfilling the promise of America.

Did you support Larry Kissell's run against Hayes in the last election, if so, how?

As you may know, I was one of four Democrats who ran in the primary for NC-08 in the last cycle. After Mr. Kissell won the primary, I supported him in many ways. I made both financial and in-kind contributions to his campaign (in-kind in the form of video-taping campaign events), and encouraged my supporters to vote for him. I also volunteered for his campaign by helping with GOTV phone calls & canvassing events, etc.

Please explain his positions on immigration rights, women's rights and gay rights.

The issue of human rights is also one I am concerned about, and it relates back to the “promise” of America.

Immigrants’ rights

Most immigrants are motivated to come to the US for the same reasons that motivated many of our ancestors to come here, to better themselves and their families.

It is in our security interest to know who is in our country and why, but the more difficult we make it for people to come out into the open, the less likely that they will do so. I support the formation of a policy that would create the means for immigrants working here to do so legally, with a path to earn citizenship for those law-abiding hard-working immigrants who wish to become citizens.

On moral grounds, I do not support the breaking up of families, or forced deportation of immigrants. One very important consideration is that many families with one or more parent with undocumented status have children who are legal US citizens.

Women’s rights

My wife Rebecca and I have both been very active in the area of supporting woman’s rights. Rebecca is an activist with NOW (National Organization of Women), and we have both been involved in the fight to protect a woman’s right to make decisions over her own body. I fully support a woman’s right to choose, and support education and options over “abstinence only” programs.

Gay rights

I believe that everyone in America deserves equal rights, regardless of race, color, religion, sexual orientation, etc. I believe that gay couples deserve the legal right to marry, in order to share in the legal rights afforded to all married couples. For example, should gay couples be denied the right to make medical or end-of-life decisions for their long-tem partner; should their kids be denied health care by one parent’s insurance company? I say absolutely not; they should be afforded the same rights as all other Americans in this regard.

Lastly on the human rights issue, let me say that I oppose the direction this administration has taken us over the last six years. I absolutely reject torture; I strongly support the Geneva Conventions as the guiding rule for treatment of any and all detainees, and I will work hard in Congress to help America retains it’s moral high ground on this issue.

Where do you stand on the FISA bill that proposes immunity for telecom companies?

I’m totally against the retroactive immunity for telecom companies proposed in the newest version of FISA; if they didn’t do anything illegal as the Bush administration claims, why would they need immunity?

Can you explain your position on this administration's intrusion on our civil liberties?

Our civil liberties have been under attack; warrentless wiretaps, the trampling of Habeas Corpus, The Patriot Act, The Military Commissions Act, voting rights violations, free speech rights violations, etc and so on. The Bush Administration has worked to undermine our rights at every turn, and in the process has trampled our constitution. I believe that our civil liberties are the cornerstone of America’s foundation, and it will be a priority for me to restore and strengthen our civil liberties.

How do you differ from the current administration in terms of veterans affairs and issues?

Thanks, although I did not serve in combat, I have strong respect for those who do so. I believe that Congress has an undeniable obligation to insure that all Veterans receive proper care when they return; and I’ve been saddened and disgusted by what returning Iraq Veterans have been facing here at home.

I also have strong feelings about the Iraq War; I helped found a local Veterans for Peace Chapter here in Charlotte, of which I’m an active member. I want the Iraq debacle to end as soon as possible, and will work to make bringing the troops home a top priority once elected.

I believe that answers the early questions. If I've missed something please re-submit.

If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could have freed thousands more.

Harriet Tubman (1822 – 1913)

Whew!

Good job covering a lot of ground.

I want the Iraq debacle to end as soon as possible, and will work to make bringing the troops home a top priority once elected.

I wish every Democrat were that clear about Bush's war.

I'm intrigued by this:

Based on all the information available to date, universal healthcare with single payer administration appears to be the best option. Estimates suggest that there would be a savings of 350 billion dollars over the current system and that this savings is enough to finance healthcare for all. Standardized cost for procedures and medication need to be negotiated as well, to allow for the best-cost benefit to the healthcare system.

What would you do in the Congress to see this goal come to fruition?

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

Thanks for checking out the web site

As a junior congressman I would work to put forth legislation that would provide health care for all. I would seek to join such a coalition of legislators or work to build such a coalition, as long as health care for all is the ultimate goal.

Thank you for your question.

If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could have freed thousands more.

Harriet Tubman (1822 – 1913)

Thank you!

This is basically the type healthcare enjoyed by the President and Congress. I want it too...and so should everyone else in this country! Sounds like this will be a huge priority for John. You have my vote!

How aware are you of the bills already in play?

Pop quiz. : )

One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. - Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Jesus Swept ticked me off. Too short. I loved the characters and then POOF it was over.
-me

I follow this issue closely

I believe the Kucinich bill has the most merrit and gets us where we need to be. As the representative for North Carolina's 8th I would join with Mr. Kucinich to work for passage of his bill.

If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could have freed thousands more.

Harriet Tubman (1822 – 1913)

Welcome Mr. Autry.

I would like to know your thoughts on congressional members in the House and Senate procuring earmarks for their State and local constituencies. Where does it stop being the right thing to do for the people of your State and become the wrong thing to do with federal money?

I realize Congresspersons have to "bring home the bacon" so to speak, but our government has run up incredible federal deficits in this country, and there is a lot of foreign money invested in our debt which many of us find to be an uncomfortable situation for our country to be in, to say the least.

North Carolina. Turning the South Blue!

North Carolina. Turning the South Blue!

That’s a great question.

I’d like to see a moratorium on earmarks. Federal money should be targeted where it can do the most good for the most people, to serve the common good. We need to govern more responsibly. These items, when attached to a bill that has to go through, should be considered on their individual merits. We need to shine a light on the process also. Completely transparent.

If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could have freed thousands more.

Harriet Tubman (1822 – 1913)

Thank you.

Good answer.

North Carolina. Turning the South Blue!

North Carolina. Turning the South Blue!

Impressed with John Autry

I just finished reading John Autry's website, and reading his positions on various issues. I'm impressed! I'm inclined to think that this candidate is worth a second look.

gotta agree!

I'm biased of course, as John is a friend, but I really like his policy positions!

On abstinence, I couldn't agree more. Why do the people who say that are against abortion refuse to support the things that would prevent unwanted pregnancies? No one prefers to face that choice; prevention and education are key!

Couldn't agree more

How hypocritical for anyone who is against a woman's right to choose abortion to also preach abstinence only. Those very people should be willing to do whatever necessary to reduce unwanted pregnancies. Educating our children is the best way to assure they have only wanted pregnancies. It is the best way to reduce the number of abortions.

Hey Tex

Thanks for your consideration.

If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could have freed thousands more.

Harriet Tubman (1822 – 1913)

What has been your experience with the DCCC?

All of us "outsiders" have a hard time figuring how those guys operate. Got any insight?

Another good question

I understand why they would choose to involve themselves in a primary, but It seems to hamper the democratic process. The DCCC hasn't helped me at all. I'm a grassroots candidate. I am preplexed by their stance.

If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could have freed thousands more.

Harriet Tubman (1822 – 1913)

John, welcome

what is your position on amnesty for undocumented workers who are in this country illegally?

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Hi Betsy,

In the block of answers above where I answered the early questions, I believe you can get your answer.

Thanks.

If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could have freed thousands more.

Harriet Tubman (1822 – 1913)

John, so you are pro Amnesty?



Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

Here's some great insight on that question

from a NYT Op-Ed today:

Editorial Observer

What Part of ‘Illegal’ Don’t You Understand?

Article Tools Sponsored By
By LAWRENCE DOWNES
Published: October 28, 2007

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/opinion/28sun4.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

"Meanwhile, out on the edges of the debate — edges that are coming closer to the mainstream every day — bigots pour all their loathing of Spanish-speaking people into the word. Rant about “illegals” — call them congenital criminals, lepers, thieves, unclean — and people will nod and applaud. They will send money to your Web site and heed your calls to deluge lawmakers with phone calls and faxes. Your TV ratings will go way up.

This is not only ugly, it is counterproductive, paralyzing any effort toward immigration reform. Comprehensive legislation in Congress and sensible policies at the state and local level have all been stymied and will be forever, as long as anything positive can be branded as “amnesty for illegals.”

This is likely not the place to get into a deeper discussion

on the "undocumented worker/illegal immigrants" issue. However, I resent that anyone who questions why we should reward economic refugees with citizenship is immediately labelled as a bigot...ala your quote above.

That's dirty pool and untrue. Me, I want our borders secured before we come up with any "comprehensive plan" and while I support a humane approach to dealing with those who are here illegally, I also want to make sure we don't confer citizenship on people who don't want to be citizens....they just want the money.

Citizenship is a privilege and a responsibility. I was born here, but I've damn sure paid my dues also...as have many others.

SE NC Dems

Stan Bozarth

fredly....I could care less what the NYT has to say

I asked John what his stance was on the issue.

You can try to paint me as a bigot if you like, but this type of response is a shield and basically tells me that you know John Autry does not have a straight up answer for the people of the 8th district....let alone me.

Oh and by the way.....if by quoting this piece you are trying to paint as bigots those who don't believe Amnesty should be afforded undocumented workers, you just insulted a large majority of voters in the 8th district. Smooth move.

edit.....this is in response to fredly...not Stan.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

John's position

seems clear...he supports comprehensive immigration reform which provides a path to citizenship for hard working immigrants who are obeying the laws once they get here....

Doesn't your candidate support deporting 12 million people?

Here's the State Party's position on immigration ( it's similiar to John's)

IMMIGRATION

* Immigration

We recognize that we are a nation of immigrants. We have consistently fought for the rights of working immigrants. Immigrants are a vital part of North Carolina's progress. We believe the State should provide access to important information about State services and benefits in the primary language of legal immigrants with a goal toward English proficiency.

While we recognize that immigration laws are enacted at the federal level, our State government and grassroots citizens can impact such policies by influencing our federal representatives to strengthen our national borders, protect homeland security, and to enforce existing laws. We strive for a just and comprehensive immigration law which includes a path to citizenship for hard-working, tax-paying immigrants that have contributed to making our State great.

If you added a few words to the last sentence

strive for a just and comprehensive immigration law which includes a path to citizenship for hard-working, tax-paying legally admitted and law abiding immigrants that have contributed to making our State great....

I could readily agree. Otherwise...not so much.

SE NC Dems

Stan Bozarth

I agree

that there shoud be a path to earn citizenship.

I was not implying that you are a bigot, since I don't know you. I was simply pulling a point from the Op-Ed that all the heated rhetoric is standing in the way of real comprehensive reform.

Another point, people who want to come to the US on an occasional basis to work can't do so under our current system, because often if they leave, they may not be allowed back.
Why not give everyone a way to stay legally, by issuing some sort of work permit, thereby taking them out of the shadows. Wouldn't that be more secure for all of us? Then people who wanted to earn the right to stay, could work on that, and others who wanted to leave, could also do so.

What makes you think you can win?

okay, here goes...
Why do you think you can win the 8th congressional seat, knowing that a lot of people here, myself not included, don't take too kindly to those "Charlotte liberal folk"?
Especially knowing that this sentiment lives even more in my own Cabarrus County, which on average votes 65% republican and which has by far the most votes of any County in the 8th?

Left on 49

I don't know...

I don't KNOW that I CAN win. But the 8th has had conservative representation long enough. I believe in American Values and I progressive values are American values. I believe these values can ring true with the voters of the 8th. I don't believe they are happy with what they have currently.

If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could have freed thousands more.

Harriet Tubman (1822 – 1913)

Maybe I'm strange...

but I think it is a little weird to run for office if you're not convinced that you can win the race.

Left on 49

John is merely telling the truth.

Anyone that would claim to KNOW with absolute certainty that they will win at this point is either lying or they have done something illegal to fix the race.

I didn't ask that..

I didn't ask " Are you 100% sure you will win from Hayes?".
I asked "Do you think you can win?", as in do you think you have a good chance of winning?
If you're not sure you have a good chance of winning, which is what I get from this answer:

I don't KNOW that I CAN win.

then I don't understand why you're running in the first place, unless you're just looking for an expensive hobby. I'm hoping John just didn't understand the question.

Left on 49

I can't answer for John but...

I would say that he must think he has a realistic chance to put forward the time, energy, money, stress, challenges, etc., etc. that it requires to run. It doesn't appear as though he is just sitting on his butt with his name in the hat based on what I've seen, so I think it is more than reasonable to assume that he thinks he can win.

I believe

I BELIEVE I can win. If I didn't believe I could win, I certainly wouldn't take on such an undertaking.

If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could have freed thousands more.

Harriet Tubman (1822 – 1913)

Me too--it is a good question.

I usually lurk, but I first found this site reading up on Larry Kissell and Southern Dem's blog on Hayes. I think Mr. Autry ought to have to answer hard questions if he is going to be deserving of this type of time and attention when there is a proven candidate in the race who all but won. I'm not against primary races, but I am FOR Larry Kissell.

I believe I have answered her question.

I would definately not join the blue dogs.

If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could have freed thousands more.

Harriet Tubman (1822 – 1913)

I think he was looking for a simple yes or no

on Amnesty. Many voters in the 8th - if not most - are against Amnesty for undocumented workers who entered this country illegally. This is a very important issue to many voters in this district.

Most people I know who are against Amnesty, believe in treating people in a humane way. Very few believe that families should be torn apart. Unfortunately, this can happen when you break the law. It happens to families of legal citizens all the time when they break the laws of this country. There are many things out there to tempt otherwise law abiding people into breaking laws. I'm sometimes confused by the folks who think they can pick and choose which laws they should follow and which ones are just there for everybody else.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

The problem...

The problem is that there are a number of concerns people have with this immigration issue. For some it has to do with security, for some it has to do with the law, for some it may be that they feel their jobs are threatened, for some it is a humanitarian issue, for many it is some combination of these. People need to consider the possibility that it may be impossible to effectively and pragmatically provide an answer that will magically address everyone's concerns. We may need to sacrifice some concerns for others depending on which ones we decide are most important.

For example, if knowing who is in this country and why is the most important for security reasons, then making it harder for these people to come out into the open may not be the best solution. Obviously, if you plan to punish or deport them, they will not be inclined to come out. Also you need to consider the possible consequences of attempting to take that approach. As a practical matter, how much would it cost and who is going to pay for it? Are these people for rising taxes to get this accomplished? What will be the impact on businesses? What will be the impact on building costs, grocery bills, and other areas? How will some counties' tax base fare if they have a large number of businesses depending on this labor? It seems like most all the economic ripples this would cause would be negative. What about the moral aspect of it? Do these people realistically think that the American public will stand to watch families being torn apart in the dead of night by immigration or homeland security forces on CNN throughout the months and years it will take to accomplish this? How many times do you think that scene will be played out before the public says "Enough!" Also, considering the influence business has on government, how many people realistically believe that government will be able to accomplish this if business is opposed to it?

I'm just trying to suggest that if taking "the law is the law" approach is most important to you, you need to consider the practical, economic, security, and moral consequences that are likely to result.

If you think the security issue is the most important, then the easier you make it for these people to openly transition into our society (so we know who and where they are, what they are doing, and why they are here), then the better off we will be in that regard. This also will result in money coming into the economy as opposed to potentially causing a tax and inflation issue, and it also has the advantages of being humane and realistic. This appears to be John Autry's approach. For those who believe that we need to make these people -- that are fleeing economic oppression and that are already on the lowest rungs of our society's ladder -- go through further hardship or even be punished (for something they themselves might do for their own family if they were in their shoes), then maybe Autry is not their man on this issue.

It is easy to say things like it's the law and we must enforce it, and it's easy to blame people in the margins of society for all our ills (the powerful have been using this method to distract us and shift the focus off of themselves throughout history). You hear people talking about "illegal immigrants" (as if there can be "illegal" people), but you never hear them talking about businesses that hire them in the same way -- as in "illegal businesses." Why is that? There are plenty of us that were born here whose great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandparents never had to go through immigration because the Indians that were here first didn't have a system set up to process them -- nor could they enforce it if they had, since they basically had their territory taken away from them by people with superior fire-power. I'm not sure what moral authority that gives us to weld over people that weren't lucky enough to be born here like we were. Sure, some people here did go through some immigration process in the past, but the requirements have changed over time. There is no reason to think that we can't change those requirements again in the future if it seems more pragmatic or humane to do so - especailly if it may be the most effective means for security reasons

Also...

I'd also like to add that John is pretty clear on where he stands regarding the immigration issue -- as most people could see at the top of this thread and on his website. Conservatives who are opposed to this type of immigration stance were the ones that started attacking it by turning it into an "amnesty" issue when this first started. It was their way of "framing" the debate in the same way that they might frame a woman's right to choose as "pro-abortion." I think you saw what John said and understood it, but you wanted to take it a step further and get him to buy into your framing of it as an "amnesty" issue. That is why you were insisting on a yes or no to your question and got upset when he didn't fall for it, and then claimed he didn't give you an answer.

It may be that this is the way you see it, as an "amnesty" issue (in the same way that some people might see a woman's right of choice as a pro-abortion issue), but that isn't how John seems to see it, so you shouldn't get upset if he doesn't want to have himself framed in those terms. Maybe he sees it more as a humanitarian issue or a security issue or an issue of pragmatism and reason (or all of these). Maybe he doesn't want his well-considered position to be reduced or limited to someone else's one-dimensional label. Whatever the reason, I see nothing wrong with how he answered the question. I can see you are already framing it how you wanted to anyway.

And just to make myself clear (so there's no misunderstanding like there was with Fredly's post) I in no way meant to imply anything about what your position on a woman's right of choice happens to be, I was merely using it as an example of how people frame things.

Finally, you say, "Most people I know who are against Amnesty, believe in treating people in a humane way. Very few believe that families should be torn apart." That is fine, but you can't always have your cake and eat it too. Sometimes you have to decide between what you value most (as I covered in my earlier post).

After reading the answers, Stan,

I don't think he'd be a Blue Dog. He did seem dismissive of Betsy though.

These primaries are going to destroy us. Jeebus H. Tapdancing on Toast. We'd all better start working together. (including myself in that statement.)


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

My take....

It was my impression that Betsy was attempting to get John to buy into her framing of the immigration issue and he didn't fall for it (see my post above).

You're wrong

I simply wanted a yes or no....straight up answer...not platitudes or smoke blowing. I didn't frame anything. Instead of calling it amnesty I could have asked John if he thought those in this country illegally should be required to follow the law. I could have asked him what other crimes folks should simply be excused for committing. I could have asked him if he thought there were some groups that deserved special privileges. I could have asked him the same question in any number of ways that could have made John look worse than he would have if he had simply answered a very direct question in a very direct way. John Autry's answer shows he does not have a very clear understanding of the majority of voters in the 8th district.

I selected the question on illegal immigration and asked it the way I did because I wanted a straight up answer. I am actually closer to John 's view on this issue than I am Larry Kissell's. Surprise! This is the one issue where I differ from Larry, but I have researched and spent enough time in the 8th to know that Larry mirror's his district. He knows what the people are going through and he believes in representing his constituency...not just the far left liberals in a couple of neighborhoods in Chahlotte. So, while Larry and I don't align 100% on this one issue, I believe with every ounce of my being that he knows the people of the 8th and he is the best leader to send to Washington.

If John isn't willing to answer a direct question with a direct answer so the voters in the 8th will actually know where he stands, then he doesn't deserve their vote. Anglico invited John to live blog so he would have another platform. Don't tell me to go to his web site. This was his chance to tell me where he stands. I asked him to clarify his answer because most people will not read through a dissertation - even when told to refer back to it.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

See -

cuz you're guessing and ascribing motives to Betsy that just weren't there. He could have just answered the question, but he's got people like you advising him: "don't fall for Betsy Muse's questions."

Jeebus Holy Tap Dancer. I might bow out of Blue NC and politics all together until the bloodbath of the primaries are over.


Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

Engage woman, engage!

Now is not the time to back down or bow out. Now is the time to dig in and engage! :)

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

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