Due Process and Delegate Selection
Like some BlueNCers on here, I have a friend who attempted to run to be a national delegate at the state convention (for Sen. Obama). Her name, it turns out, will not be on the candidate slate for the state convention on Saturday. I'm sad and disappointed for her...but what concerns me is how the process seems to work (or not work). What follows is what little I know about how the process works for the election of national delegates at the state convention of the North Carolina Democratic Party:
Individuals interested in becoming a delegate filled out the appropriate paperwork and sent it to the North Carolina Democratic Party earlier in the year. It was due by a certain date. One could mark whether they were a candidate for their district convention and/or the state convention.
Following the state party receiving the applications, a process began in which the respective Democratic presidential campaigns (Sen. Obama and Sen. Clinton) approved their respective delegate candidates. I don't know of anyone who got "rejected" by their preferred campaign, but anyway...
A delegate candidate then (theoretically) received word, most likely by e-mail, from the special projects coordinator of the state party that their candidacy had been approved by their preferred campaign.
District conventions elected their delegates, where the only "affirmative action" goals were by sex. The Plan of Organization for the NCDP explicitly states the number of delegates each district has to slate and the number of men/women quota that is required.
This brings us to this month. From the elected district delegates, the state must "fill in" the remaining affirmative action goals that were not met by the elected district delegates, to include race, age, orientation, and disability. The list of campaign-approved delegate candidates for the state convention, in the interests of organization, etc. is "whittled down" by the state party so that the election of delegates at the state convention can be relatively painless and timely in nature.
A delegate selection committee of the NCDP is comprised of various Democrats in the state (not sure how this committee is selected, but needless to say, it's made up of a mix of Democrats across the state).
What follows next is what has occurred this year (I have no knowledge of how previous elections were conducted). At the meeting of the delegate selection committee on June 19, 2008, held at the NCDP HQ, with committee members allowed to attend by conference call, the "proposed" delegate slate was given to the committee by the state party. It was not explained what person(s) created this proposed list. No one explained how the initial larger campaign-approved delegate candidate list for state convention was edited into the "proposed" delegate slate.
As way of further explanation, the "proposed" delegate slate is organized in such a way that the top name is the "preferred" candidate while the second name is...not preferred(?). In other words, the NCDP "prefers" the first name listed to be a delegate (I'll let other people draw their own conclusions about what all those names have in common, I'm just trying to give a objective description here). As has been related to me (hearsay!), is that most of the time, the preferred candidate wins, b/c the "fix" is in with NCDP unofficially stating that the first name should be the person selected by state delegates at the state convention for election.
To my knowledge, no names were allowed to be redacted by the delegate selection committee, though it was possible to add names. To my knowledge, whatever debate occurred, a motion was made to accept the "proposed" slate (which was not created, modified, edited, or ... any work done at all by the very committee which is responsible for it, other than accepting it for presentation to the state convention).
So, on Saturday, June 22, the state delegates of the North Carolina Democratic Party state convention will vote on a select group of delegate candidates that were selected by unknown person(s) for unknown reasons.
I have no idea what appeals process would be appropriate. I have no idea who would be the appropriate person to ask about this system and how the names were chosen. And, to my knowledge, this is the way it's usually been done. I have heard names about who may have been involved in this process, but I'm not repeating what I don't know to be true at this time. I can also point out certain names appearing on the "proposed" delegate slate which indicates the reasons for their selection, but I'm not here to shine the spotlight on any one person. This is about the process, not individuals.
This year, one would assume, our state convention will be about the values we NC Democrats are celebrating and the candidates we hope to usher to victory in 2008. But the process we use to elect delegates to our party's national convention doesn't seem to mirror the values and candidate we are offering as a nominee for President this year. So, I have a few simple questions for the NCDP:
1) What process was used to created the "proposed" delegate candidate list, who was involved in this decision, and what standards/metrics were used to determine which candidates made it?
2) What actions/reforms has the state party enacted/planned to enact to reflect our presumptive presidential candidate's call to end "politics as usual" and the audacity to change the way we operate in politics?
All in all, this isn't a big issue. But if our state party operates in such a way with delegate selection...well...I just don't know.
In the end, really, is it all just empty rhetoric?
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What to do?
I really don't have an answer. My only planned protest at this point is to just vote for all of the second names on the ballot. I still have no idea what to call them...non-preferred? Un-preferred?
I wonder if you could make a motion to add a name...hmmmmm...
I hate not knowing the rules. It takes something like this to learn them, and by the time you know them, it's too late.
Maybe I'm just overreacting to all this. This is the way we've always done it, right? Who cares, right?
write in ballot
I wonder if we could pick one race and organize a write in campaign. It probably is against the rules but it would show the powers that be that we are pissed.
"jump in where you can and hang on"
Briscoe Darling to Sheriff Andy
I don't want to start a kerfuffle...
But I think there may be some inquiries of the chair at the meeting about what the heck ARE our options...
answer on other thread
http://bluenc.com/open-thread-62#comment-98710
Feel free to call me if you like, this is my cell: 919.395.1794
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As a voter, I don't care who goes to the National Convention
1. Your story (and I sincerely thank you for being so objective) doesn't say what happened to your friend at the District Convention. Did she go to her District Convention and try to get elected? What happened?
I went to my District Convention and caucussed with the Clinton supporters because it really didn't matter to me who goes to Denver for Obama, and I have a good friend who is a Clinton supporter and who wanted to go. I can happily report that we elected my friend on the first round of voting. So the system seems to work at the District Level.
2. Most of your story relates the process of becoming a delegate at the State Convention. (I'm going to my first one tomorrow.) You raise some interesting questions that I would like to have answers to.
I will admit that I'm of two minds on the question of creating the 'proposed' delegates list. On the one hand, the voting process can be VERY tedious and difficult and boring (the Obama people were still voting when I left the District Convention, for example), and I don't do well with meetings like that. On the other hand, I guess I don't see why the list has to be pared down at all to just 'proposed' delegates. So I tend to agree with you that a more transparent process would be good.
3. The bottom line for me is as a voter: I really don't care who goes to the National Convention. What matters to me is that the delegate - whoever they are - vote for Obama. That's the real goal of the process, IMNSHO, not the individuals who get to go. I understand that you're upset that your friend was left out with no explanation or transparent process, and I'm glad that my friend is going to Denver. But to me, the only individual who matters is Obama, and he only matters because of what he might do for all of us.
My $0.02,
-- ge
Besta é tu se você não viver nesse mundo
http://george.entenman.name
Indeed...
Well, I didn't mean for THAT part of the story to leave you hanging! :)
My friend did attempt to run at the district convention and was, obviously, unsuccessful. That's why she then attempted to run at the state level. And, don't get me wrong, I'm sad she didn't make it, but I think all the people I speak with are more angry about a process that is being done by the shadow-y Powers That Be and that the delegate selection committee seems to be a rubber stamp, rather than they didn't end up on the ballot (though, that certainly serves as an impetus).
From what I heard, the delegate selection committee received the "proposed" list AT the meeting...they had no chance to preview it beforehand. I'm not going to say the "plan" was to just give it to them and have them accept it...but, from what I can tell, that's exactly what happened. Does the committee have some culpability in this by not asking questions and exercising their power? Absolutely.
And I had some problems with the district elections. I'm a Clinton delegate, so I try not to go into "Obama matters" too much, but I thought the "endorsement letters" that some delegate candidates had were almost as bad, with the "Powers That Be" interfering. But, hey, that's politics, and it's up to the delegates to make a decision about how they want to vote. In that case, however, it was transparent what occurred. Not so in this case.
Also, I certainly have no problem with creating a streamlined delegate candidate ballot for the convention...I completely agree we could be there all day (or all weekend!) otherwise. What I DO have a problem with is a process of creating that ballot which (again, not naming names) seems to have been created by a small group of unidentified people using unidentified means for eliminating delegate candidates AND that the same final "proposed" ballot has "preferred" names on it. How elite can we get??
This is my "challenge" to Obama supporters (and I know I've said this before, but I guess I'll keep saying it until there's an answer)...if I hear his message correctly, this campaign is about "change" and "a new kind of politics." If, as members of the state party, we continue with the status quo and backroom deals, then is this just empty rhetoric and that NCDP will just operate as business as usual?? Isn't that, um, hypocritical for the state party and its leaders to promote his message but not live it?
Zabouti, this is my first state convention too, so I'm just starting to learn these rules as well. The problem is, I don't think I'll understand them until it's too late!
..and, lastly, I know what you're saying, but I can't agree that I want all the delegates to vote for Obama!! We have 18 millions voters to be represented! :)
Seriously though (well, I was serious with the other one...), I think it also matters who is a delegate for this reason: Especially in regards to the Obama campaign, but in regards to the Democratic Party as a whole, our mission this year, as it always should be, is to increase our fold. If we send the same-ol' good ol' boys and girls (or NEW good ol' boys and girls), then are we really embracing the newly engaged Democratic voters? Are we saying to first time convention go-ers that, "Hey, I know this delegate election thing is supposed to be democratic, but just let us worry about it...how about you just go sign up to be a volunteer for some campaigns, and we'll let you know when we need you? KTHNX!"
How exciting would it be to send young and not-so-young new/not-so-new Democrats to the national convention? Wouldn't this help excite those Democrats, their friends and family, allow them to network with other Democrats across the country, and REALLY create a 50-state strategy? IMHO, that's the larger message.
I think I agree with you on transparency
I even put that part in bold. The point of my 3rd point is that in this case it at least doesn't seem to affect the outcome, which is more important than transparency, altho, as I said, I want more of it, as you do.
I don't see how transparency - or putting all names on the ballots - will help the young/new/etc. people unless they are already networking on their own.
And I don't understand why this is in your post:
..and, lastly, I know what you're saying, but I can't agree that I want all the delegates to vote for Obama!! We have 18 millions voters to be represented! :)No way I said that Clinton delegates should vote for Obama (on the first round, that is). They're there to represent the people who sent them. I fully expect my friend who is the Clinton delegate to vote for her.
Besta é tu se você não viver nesse mundo
http://george.entenman.name
yeah...
Well, I was slightly kidding with that one comment...but just wanted to make it for the record. :) <--- Hence, the...
I think the transparency argument affecting new voters is this: Does hearing how this process works, as a first time state convention go-er, make you feel A) Better about the way the party works B) The same about how the party works or C) More negative about how the party works. It's the cynic Bs and Cs I'm worried about...
transparency and clarity
I would suggest there is two different types of clarity: I'll call them common-sense clarity and legal clarity.
Common-sense clarity gives you a simple understanding of how something works: If you want to run for Senate in North Carolina you have to live in North Carolina.
Legal clarity gives you a precise understanding of all of the special circumstances of how something works, i.e., there is x, y, and z loophole that allows Elizabeth Dole to technically claim residency in NC despite having spent about two weeks here in the past fifty years.
In the case of the delegate selection process you have to spell out the nitty-gritty, and if you simplify it down you run the risk of misleading someone about those details.
These are the rules: http://ncdp.org/delegate
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Now if only we followed the rules...
..and didn't have unwritten ones...
the real process
As a member of the delegate selection committee, I can tell you that the slates were created by the obama and clinton campaigns, not the state party. We just ratified it. we couldn't add or remove, although we could have rearranged the slate. It is the campaigns that put THEIR preferred candidate first.
Thank you very much for clarifying this
Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.