Easley uses gay slur to praise Clinton

Yesterday Mike Easley endorsed Hillary Clinton. No surprise there, since like her, he is a "right of center" Democrat. What did stand out was in the course of his endorsement he decides to praise her while using a gay slur.

...nothing I love more than a strong powerful woman." Easley concluded his remarks saying Clinton -- "makes Rocky Balboa look like a pansy".

Clinton seemed to see nothing amiss with this remark, but then that is also not surprising to me. For the record:

1) Only bigots use words like "pansy", specifically bigots who are frightfully insecure about their own sexuality and have to denigrate others with childish taunts to feel good.

2) "Rocky" is not the metaphor you want to use for the Clinton campaign.

Apollo Creed, a black guy, beat Rocky to a pulp. Rocky lost. Intimating the Rocky was a homosexual does not change that reality. Why is it necessary to point this out to allegedly intelligent adults?

Comments

I haven't even paid any attention to the endorsement

Ugly....but it'll work with the crowd Easley is playing to.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

Agreed

This is what I don't like about the Easley/Hagan wing of the party.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

This is what I don't like

This is what I don't like about the Easley/Hagan wing of the party.

What about the Easley/Arrowood wing of the party? Do you know how many lawyers would want a Court of Appeals seat in this state?

http://www.equalitync.org/news1/20070825

I won't pretend to know Easley's complete record on gay rights in NC, but you seem pretty intent on declaring him a "bigot" bully who shoves gay kids into their lockers and gives them swirlies. That's just not right.
"Bigot" isn't a word that should just be thrown around.

By "Easley/Hagan" I refer

to the Vichy Dem wing of the party who put corporate interests, and patronizing the red neck crowd above genuine progressive efforts. They are all about "bi-partisanship" and "compromise" even when it means selling out people who they supposedly represent. They will "work with" Republicans, just as the Vichy government "worked with" the Germans. And that turned out so well...

As to "pansy", I said the word is used by bigots, I didn't mention working over gay kids, but it wouldn't surprise me. :)

I have little use for a "good ol boy", even less use for a "good ol boy" in a suit (or a skirt).

Hagan and Easley are prepared to put their own personal ambitions ahead of what is good for the state of NC and many of the people in it.

Hagan has made plain that she has no use for bloggers and can do without gay/lesbian support. Easley has made it plain he wants a cabinet post, and if he has to support someone who will NOT carry the state in November, that's just too bad for NC.

Yeah, if McCain and Dole win, Easley and Hagan lose, but they will still have very high paying jobs, excellent health care, and people vying for their services. The rest of us, especially soldiers, are FUCKED.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

How wonderfully nice of you.

Hi,
"Bigot" isn't a word that should just be thrown around.

And, to you, apparently, "Pansy" isn't a word that shouldn't be just thrown around?
You haven't a clue, do you? No offense but it is so true.

You know what? The "N" word is so universally unacceptable. Do you think it should be "just thrown around"?
Easley is just a bit older than I. In fact, he is the age of those who made us kids cry to sleep at night by calling us "Pansy's".
I don't use that "N" word, not because of political correctness. I don't use it because I know how it makes others feel.
I don't know Easly's gay rights past, but I do know that he knows how damning that "Pansy" term is to us kids from 35 years ago.

Yes, I think "bigot" should not be thrown around carelessly. However, I think that when the shoe fits, wear it. When a spade is a spade, it is a card. When a Pansy is a Pansy, it is myself 30 years ago. Easily teenage years, I was just getting there and, Easley's called me that to let me know I was not normal and worthles, I was a pansy, a homosexual, a fruit, and, YES IT IS SO FRIGGING BIGOTED OF HIM ONLY BECAUSE HE DAMN WELL KNOWS IT'S INFERENCE.
Whether you realize it or not.
Loveya,
Duane

Easley is a big Sissy! And so his tagteam partner Hillary!

...nothing I love more than a strong powerful woman." Easley concluded his remarks saying Clinton -- "makes Rocky Balboa look like a pansy".* White boy from North Carolina

Either Easley has been watching too much of " Smackdown" or he is into whips and changes after this quote " nothing I love more than a strong powerful women" Gads! We have finally expose a retarded prevert in office like George Bush........

LOL Crash Easley was impressed w/ Hillary's Bosnia story

Frankly, your post gave me a sickening visual. I may not be able to sleep.

Maybe Crash Easley wants to take Hillary out for a spin.....Or go to Bosnia and duck sniper fire!

crash boom! Bang!

She's tough, she was under sniper fire in Bosnia, she throws back shots with the boys, she threatens to murder a million innocent people....

when did pansy become a gay slur

I've always known it and used it to imply someone is a whimp. Are we looking too much into the words.

Nope...

I've heard "pansy" as a synonym for homosexual my entire life (six years in an all male military school. Just about every dictionary you look at lists it that way, including my O.E.D.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

I bet more people use it to mean whimp or wuss

than as a pejorative meaning homosexual.

Nope

Hi,
Nope, how often do you use that word, just if I might ask.
Pansy is rarely used as anything but a flower these days, but go back one day at a time and you will find its primary use (in the time of Hillary, Easley and me) as a word to describe a perverted little "fruit" (another past term for us ungodly homosexuals).
Loveya,
Duane

A slur by any other name

JJ may be right. Maybe it's not a gay slur, but it's stupid nonetheless. Which is about all I'd expect from lead-foot Mike "the NASCAR Wrecker" Easley. His comments about Clinton give new meaning to the word "lame."

It is a slur

Hi,
JJ is not right. "Pansy" is a greater slur than most homosexuals today can understand. It is from a time before "gay rights". A time when there was NO place of security from the horrible life of being born gay.
It is a major slur FROM THE TIME OF HILLARY, EASLEY, AND ME.
loveya,
Duane

I cannot believe you don't know that's what it means.

Would Merriam-Webster convince you?

2.a usually disparaging : a weak or effeminate man or boy b usually disparaging : a male homosexual

Christ.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

You're right

I was just trying to give Easley a tiny benefit of the doubt, which I should have long-since realized he doesn't deserve.

Sorry.

I may have over reacted a tiny bit. I'm just pissed that people try to pass it off as "he didn't really mean that". Well, yes, he did. And if he didn't, he should have known better, the little prig. Endorse who you want for President. That's his prerogative as an American. But to use a slur in your endorsement? Imagine if he had referred to "darkies" or "hebes" or "spics"? That wouldn't have been okay, and the media would have been all over him.

But he can say "pansy", because maybe he meant a flower. Right.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Utter nonsense

I don't know about you, but when I grew up pansy did not have any conotation towards someone's sexual orientation. Pansy, sissy, whimp, wuss, baby, and even girl were equally used interchangeably to mean the same thing, scaredy-cat, or weakling.

I want to see the etymology of pansy so I can know precisely when it entered into the general vernacular as a homosexual.

Let's stop trying to find words to take offense at.

I'm not trying to find words to take at which to take offense.

It's telling that you didn't know that an accepted slang meaning of the world "pansy" is a derogatory word for a gay male. A friend of mine, a gay male, says that a lot of people called him, gay, fag, pansy, queer, etc., before he ever realized he was. They were so cruel to him that he spent recess hiding so no one could find him.

Thank god he's one of the lucky ones not hiding from anyone now.

Here is your etymology.

Online Etymology Dictionary
c.1450, from M.Fr. pensée "a pansy," lit. "thought, remembrance," from fem. pp. of penser "to think," from L. pensare "consider," freq. of pendere "to weigh" (see pensive). So called because it was regarded as a symbol of thought or remembrance. Meaning "effeminate homosexual man" is first recorded 1929.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

we called people pansies all the time

and in no way did it ever have the same meaning as queer, fag, etc.

If you refused to jump off the railroad bridge into the river you were a pansy. it never ever meant that we were using a disparaging word for homosexual

Your usage notwithstanding

it has still been used that way (by people who actually understood the word they were using)
for a long, long, long time.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

I'm with JJ on this one

Until today, I had no clue that pansy was a word synonymous with homosexual.

Please, Linda, enlighten me and JJ as to how this is "telling" that we did not know about this meaning. I really love it when people I've never met pass judgment on me!

I'm passing judgment on the way you're using words

which I think is totally fair in a medium made up of words.

I really love it when people confronted with their own ignorance continue to deny when reality is presented to them.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

I didn't use pansy

Yes, I admit to being ignorant about the meaning of pansy. So does JJ and at least a few others on this thread. I don't think that gives you a right to judge me or them about it.

You once again are missing the point. Tell me honestly, do you think Gov. Easley's message was:

She makes Rocky Balboa look like a homosexual?

Or

She makes Rocky Balboa look like a wimp?

Your answer to this question will tell me a lot more about you than my lack of knowledge of the meaning of pansy says about me.

Thanks

Hi,
It really brings tears to my eyes.
Your friend survived words like "pansy", "fruit", "sissy", etc. I have a lot of friends who decided that death was better than being who they were, and being persecuted for it by the words of others.
It is people like you, who have understanding, that make this world a better place for all.
Loveya,
Duane

thanks for coming by, duane

I have friends who decided that death was better than being called names constantly, too. People have no idea how words hurt. "Sticks and stones will break my bones - but words will break my spirit."

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

UTTER NONESENSE?

Hi,
Someone else gave you an etymology from a dictionary.
Let me give you mine, it is not from a dictionary.

Pansy: (At the same time as Easley and Clintons growing up)
ME, a boy who liked boys, hated himself for it and didn't know why. A word which made some young boys hide themselves away for many of their years. A word so hurtful to young boys (girls were supposed to be "pansy's") that many of them would commit suicide rather than be "pansy's" which is a "homosexual".
I AM FROM EASLEY AND CLINTON'S GROWING-UP TIME AND I AM A MAJOR RECIPIENT OF THAT WORD.
THESAURUS: The "N" word except this one would cross all lines of race, color, creed, etc.

I hope that helps you. You don't have to take offense at it. I take offense at it only because, I am from the time of Easley and Clinton and I know THEY know exactly what hatred they are referring.
Loveya,
Duane

While I understand and appreciate

your efforts, these people KNOW what they are saying. They are comfortable saying it. If the matter gets any press attention, Easley will issue the standard "non-apology apology".

These people are Dixiecrats and they'll take our money while screwing us over when it really counts.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

and the apology will read

When the hell did this word come to mean this and not that

Sorry, JJ, but it has always been used to refer to homosexuals

Just 'cause ya didn't catch on for a while doesn't mean it won't always that-a-way.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

and the answer will be

1929, Why didn't you know, you little bigot?

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Homosexuality wasn't invented until 1929, right?

Sorry, couldn't resist. I realize a buncha folks will think I'm in earnest.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

I guess I am a bigot

Because I didn't know one definition of a word that people use differently. I could see it as a slur, but under the right context.

This is not one of those contexts.

No, no, you're not getting

No, no, you're not getting away without owning up fully. Repeat after me:

1) Only bigots use words like "pansy", specifically bigots who are frightfully insecure about their own sexuality and have to denigrate others with childish taunts to feel good.

:)

well damn

you got me there ;)

Easley's blowing the secret dog whistle for Dixie Crats

Its part of the Clinton strategy. The secret dog whistle was blown in PA for whites who have racist feelings.

Eeeew,

you may be right but the words Dixie crats puts my teeth to gritting. Aren't they all dead yet?

Progressive Democrats of North Carolina

Progressives are the true conservatives.

Not by a long shot.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Kosh needs to take a chill pill

I'm sure the governor was trying to be funny.

And, like many things the governor has tried over the years (mental health reform, stifling emails, wrecking a NASCAR car, etc.), it just didn't work out like he had planned.

Sure he was trying to be funny.

And jokes at the expense of any group are a-okay. How about Easley jokes about uptight jesusfreaks next? Would that be okay with you?

Or maybe he'll try to jew down the budget? Is that cool?

Maybe he'll get some inbred rednecks to keep our northern border safe? That cool?

Get my point?

You'll probably tell me to chill, too.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Why so hateful?

You are assuming everyone is as enlightened as you, or maybe as cynical. Maybe some people actually do not know the real meaning, who are you to judge their intention?

I must admit, I learned something new, because all my life I also thought it was another term for being a wuss or a coward. I have several gay friends at work and I've never heard a discussion about this term. I don't think it's the big deal you're making it out to be.

"Or maybe he'll try to jew down the budget? Is that cool?"
Yeah, that's fine... I'm Jewish, I've heard much worse. Besides, if I hated everyone for their ignorance, I wouldn't have any friends left.

You really seem quick-tempered and very judgmental. Maybe you shouldn't condemn people before knowing all the facts? We have enough hate to go around.

"1929, Why didn't you know, you little bigot?"
"Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi"

"you little bigot?" I don't think your tagline reflects your actual intention. If YOU are the change, then I wish not to see it. I can't see Gandhi responding in this manner...

Shalom!

Oh, just saw your bio entry: "I might be living in the South, but I'm a Jersey girl and always will be. That means I might not always get what I want, but you'll always know how I feel about it."

Well, I'm a Jersey boy, from Paterson... you have to be the FIRST girl from Jersey that I've seen that ever quoted Gandhi !

"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." -- Winston Churchill

~!@#$%^&*()

Hey! *I'm* the one who is uptight and persnickety. Linda's the easy going one.

She hasn't condemned, and the last thing Linda is is hateful. Maybe you're the one being a little too quick to judge, eh?

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

Thanks, Brunette.

I might not have been hateful, but I did get pretty damn angry over words. Sometimes I just get pissed off. I appreciate you getting my back.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Well...

who are you to judge their intention?

A voter.

See, I listen to what they say, analyze the context, and them make a judgment.

I must admit, I learned something new, because all my life I also thought it was another term for being a wuss or a coward. I have several gay friends at work and I've never heard a discussion about this term. I don't think it's the big deal you're making it out to be.

"Wuss" short for "wussy", politer version of "pussy", meaning "having female attributes", because being female is obviously, you know, "wrong".

Just because you and your friends have never encountered a word in a particular context, doesn't mean the word doesn't have that context.

Slang: Disparaging and Offensive.
a. a male homosexual.
b. a weak, effeminate, and often cowardly man.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pansy&x=33&y=11

2 ausually disparaging : a weak or effeminate man or boy busually disparaging : a male homosexual

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pansy

Slang an effeminate man; esp., an effeminate male homosexual: often a contemptuous term

http://www.yourdictionary.com/pansy

. Offensive Slang
a. Used as a disparaging term for a man or boy who is considered effeminate.
b. Used as a disparaging term for a homosexual man.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pansy

3. Offensive terms for an openly homosexual man.

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/pansy

See, we just don't make this shit up, we know what we are talking about. Every dictionary lists it as a disparaging term for male homosexuals.

"Or maybe he'll try to jew down the budget? Is that cool?"
Yeah, that's fine... I'm Jewish,

And you are perfectly free to not be offended by a racist stereotype as much as other people are permitted to be offended.

Well, I'm a Jersey boy, from Paterson... you have to be the FIRST girl from Jersey that I've seen that ever quoted Gandhi !

You should get out more. :)

Personally, I have my problems with Gandhi. He was all about the peace, but he was a horrid racist in his day.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Just a little sexism, how can it hurt?

I must admit, I learned something new, because all my life I also thought it was another term for being a wuss or a coward.

The term "wuss" is a combination of the words "wimp" and "pussy", neither of which require a whole lot of explanation. Just like pansy, it is (and has been) used to accuse a male of having "girlish" traits, and is considered (by the user) to be one of the strongest insults (just below faggot) that can describe someone's virility. It's actually a double-whammy, because it also denigrates females in the process.

The use of such terms by a 12 year-old boy is intolerable but understandable, considering he's navigating through puberty with the judgment of a three week-old kitten. Mike Easley is pushing sixty. The word "pansy" shouldn't even be in his vocabulary anymore, much less ready to spring up when complementing a Presidential candidate. Either he's still struggling through puberty, or he's got some heretofore unknown "issues" with human sexuality.

Mike? It's been real, and it's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun, so, you know...don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

eta: Kosh beat me to it. I take way too much time preparing my posts. ;/

Guess I shouldn't use the word hysteria

Since its root is in the greek word for uterus.

etymology of pussy

It should also be noted, that the insult pussy has a different etymology than vulgar term for the female genitalia. It derives itself from the term of endearment "pussy."

At the risk of turning BlueNC

into NCBLue, the versions seem to have a commonality in that they are (for the most part) female in nature:

pussy (2)
slang for "cunt," 1879, but probably older; perhaps from O.N. puss "pocket, pouch" (cf. Low Ger. puse "vulva"), but perhaps instead from the cat word (see pussy (1)) on notion of "soft, warm, furry thing;" cf. Fr. le chat, which also has a double meaning, feline and genital. Earlier uses are difficult to distinguish from pussy (1), e.g.:
"The word pussie is now used of a woman" [Philip Stubbes, "The Anatomie of Abuses," 1583]
But the use of pussy as a term of endearment argues against the vaginal sense being generally known before late 19c., e.g.:
" 'What do you think, pussy?' said her father to Eva." [Harriet Beecher Stowe, "Uncle Tom's Cabin," 1852]
Pussy-whipped first attested 1956.
pussy (1)
"cat," 1726, dim. of puss (1), also used of a rabbit (1715). As a term of endearment for a girl or woman, from 1583 (also used of effeminate men). Pussy willow is from 1869, on notion of "soft and furry;" pussyfoot (v.) is from 1903, originally the nickname of stealthy Oklahoma prohibition agent W.E. Johnson (1862-1945).
wuss
1982, from wussy (1960s), probably an alteration of pussy (2).
Mike Damone: You are a wuss: part wimp, and part pussy
["Fast Times at Ridgemont High" script, 1982]

If one of you wise moderators wants to remove this, I won't mind. Just don't call me a wuss. ;(

Some folks need to understand

that when it comes to word, their meanings and derivations, some of us don't play.

We have very detailed reference books, and some of them, are on PAPER.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Well, I'm a Jersey boy, from

Well, I'm a Jersey boy, from Paterson... you have to be the FIRST girl from Jersey that I've seen that ever quoted Gandhi !

I'm from Wayne. :)

And I keep the Gandhi quote up to remind myself to try to be better. The "little bigot" comment was aimed at Easley. Honestly - he's done enough for me to believe those words are true. I believe him to be a bigot.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

You missed my point

Did I say anywhere in my post that what the Governor said was okay? No.

All I'm saying is, I bet the governor has no clue that the word pansy has come to be associated with a slur against homosexuals (or at least before today, he didn't). I myself was in that same camp until today. I've probably never even used the word, or at least haven't in the last 30 years. But if I heard somebody call another man a pansy, I would have assumed it was akin to calling him a wimp and was not any kind of slap about his perceived sexual orientation. And judging from this thread, many other people would have come to the same conclusion.

It would help your case out tremendously if you could avoid knee-jerk reactions to somebody whenever they post something you don't agree with. Attacking me or anybody else for my views on this issue is completely uncalled for. You could have made all the same points above without having to attack me for it.

I find it VERY hard to believe

He doesn't know teh connotation of "pansy"

Very hard indeed.

Any you know what, I am pretty much through giving politicians the benefit of a doubt. With the money we pay them, and the benefits they collect, I expect better.

Hell, I DEMAND better.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

George Allen didn't know what "macaca" meant

or so he claimed. It still cost him the election.

And I sure as heck had never even heard that word until that flack arose.

The point was less that he used the word than how he dealt with the hurt that arose from it. Allen tried to blow it off, essentially acting like it was the fault of the people who got offended, since obviously that wasn't what he meant.

Now, I think Easley should know that "pansy" has those connotations. I just find it difficult to believe that anyone who has lived in the South, especially of his generation, hasn't heard that at some point. But even giving him the benefit of the doubt, the point is that "pansy" is a pejorative. He may not have known exactly how offensive it could be, but he should know now. And he should apologize. That's all there is to it.

I grew up all my life hearing the word "jipped." I used this word, not knowing that it derived from "gypped," which is a slur based on negative stereotypes of the Romani, or Gypsies. I truly never knew that, and when I said in casual conversation that I had been "jipped" I certainly meant no offense. I lived in Hungary, and had Romani friends. I would never have deliberately used an ethnic slur against their people, but I didn't know it was one. Then a friend of mine explained to me the context and the derivation, and I got it. So I apologized, and I don't use that word any more - except, obviously, as an example of my own education about the power of words.

There are lots of things that don't bother me when applied to me personally. And I don't think we need to police each other constantly or be so careful that we lose the ability to talk to each other. But I do think elected officials have a responsibility to their constituents, and I do think that hate-speech is a category of language that needs to be watched carefully. We don't need to flay Easley alive for this, and we don't need to play the "guilt by association game" with Clinton (no matter how much fun it might be). But it is worth taking the time for the learning opportunity, because hate-speech should never be taken lightly. Words can hurt. If Easley gets a pass, then we send the message that homophobic insults are "no big deal," and that's not something we should be doing, period.

Sorry, I have heard this all too often

He's isn't funny. He's a bigot. The word slipped off his tongue without effort or thought. This is INGRAINED.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

I think a more appropriate title for this post would be...

...The Blogger Who Went Up A Molehill, But Came Down A Mountain.

Cabarruscheapseats.com: Reasoned Discussion of Cabarrus County, NC News & Politics

Funny, Justin

I guess when you're a white breeder like us, it's easy enough to laugh it all off. I wonder though, what the little kid who gets the crap beat out of him in the 4th grade thinks about all this.

Mostly this just goes to show that Mr. Mike has pretty much outlived his usefulness in the governor's office. If Clinton is going to try to paint Obama as hating America because his preacher doesn't pull his punches, then calling out one of her endorsers as a dim-wit should be more than fair game.

precisely.

Every time someone official uses a derogatory slang term like "pansy" (or anything else), it makes it okay for some damn bully on the playground to use it, or some teacher to tell some kid to "stop acting like a pansy and act like a man." What the hell?

He should know better. He should know better, especially since he's a little guy and probably had to take his share of abuse when he was growing up.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

And I can go back to the LtE section

of any NC newspaper and find similar sentiments 30+ years ago about the use of other slurs against blacks, Hispanics, women, etc. People getting upset because Jesse was talking about "coloreds".

Let's rework the remark, using what some are claiming he meant.

"Clinton makes Rocky Balboa look like a little girl".

And what, pray tell, is wrong with little girls?

Oh, right, it is something no self-respecting male wants to be, seeing as how inferior girls are to "men".

So, this woman is tougher than this man, and by contrast makes this man look like a -- woman?

Yeah, that makes it all better now.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

In all fairness

I don't know of a single girl that could have fought Ivan Drago.

pffft.

I would have kicked his ass. :)

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Only 'cause that's as high as you could reach

:D

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.



***************************
Vote Democratic, the ass you save may be your own.

Zackedly.

But I would have. Hard. Especially today.

And great goddess help him if Casey Mann got near him. :-D

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Hillary right of center?

HA!

With that I'll agree with you.

She's not right of center.

But she's way right of where she needs to be.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Huh?

Proposing to pretty much socialize US financial markets is "right of where she needs to be?"

Proposing to pretty much socialize the health care industry (yeah, I know; private insurance will still exist. But her plan redirects financial capital in the economy toward it, and she's planning to institute a number of rediculous regulations. That's central planning. That's socialism) is "right of where she needs to be?"

Having one of the most socially left platforms of a major party Presidential candidate in recent history is "right of where she needs to be?" (Not saying I disagree with her on same-sex marriage, and in fact, I would like marriage licensing to end and marriage contracting to be decentralized; but still, she's by no means socailly right.)

Wanting to maintain the traditional foreign policy of the left- aggressive interventionism (and that IS the traditional foreign policy of the left, dating back to Wilson)- is "right of where she needs to be?"

The only issues I can think of where she is "left of where she needs to be" for what I observe to be the attitude of most Democratic voters are on drugs (although, for some reason, we libertarians seem to be the only ones fighting for legalization these days. And by legalization, I mean EVERYTHING), the death penalty (I believe she's for it, if I'm not mistaken?), and civil liberties issues (Patriot Act, Real ID/National ID Card, etc.).

Personally, I view Hillary as a totalitarian. But no bother: I view Obama and McCain the same way, as well as Edwards, Romney, Giuliani, Huckabee, Biden, Hunter, Kucinich, and Tancredo before them. (Thompson was pushing it, but at least he's heard of something called federalism. Richardson and Dodd were clean.)

There is a difference between "socialize" and "regulate"

US financial markets are in serious need of regulation, as are ALL US corporations. As for "socialized health care", you say that like it is a bad thing. Mediocre health care for everyone, is far, far, FAR better than the current system off outstanding health care for 1%, and shitty health or no health care for everyone else.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

It is effectively socialized risk.

Our financial markets are not in need of regulation. They are in need of cutting out the fundamental source of problems in credit markets such as the formation of asset bubbles, the driving of herd behavior, and moral hazard problems, which is the ability of the Federal Reserve to fix interst rates in the market and manipulate money and credit with complete discretion. (With particular focus on interest fixation, although changes in credit supply obviously affect interst rates.) The vast majority of economists on all sides agree that price fixation by the government never works and causes all kinds of distortions. Why should we expect price fixation in financial markets to work any differently when it clearly doesn't, and the cosequences are much worse than those yielded by inefficiency in other markets?

What Clinton is calling for in her mortgage bailout and regulatory plans (and, to lesser extend, what Obama is calling for in his plans) IS socialized risk. Her plan effectively amounts to bailouts for those who lose their homes regardless of credit history: in other words, if take on a lot of risk or take on loans that you can't afford or don't take steps to make sure you afford, the government will be there to bail you out. This, with her proposed moratorium on foreclosures, is suicide and is going to impose a huge risk for lenders. Regulation will only increase costs. (Sarbanes-Oxley, according to some estimates I've read, has cost the US economy $1 trillion and increased expenditures associated with being public by over 130%. The internal control test required by SoX is a tremendous joke.) If we want to prevent shenanigans from happening, we should have a good litigation system with stronger enforcement of contracts and massive liability established (hell, I'm against limited liability for corporations) to provide disincentives to do so.

I would say that what we have right now in health care IS a socialized system. The federal tax expenditure for employer-provided care (be it employer tax exemption for provision of benefits for tax benefits for consumers for joining employer pools) is in the hundreds of billions of dollars. (The last statistic I saw, it was over $450 billion in 2004. I'm sure it's vastly more than that now.) I personally would blame this alone for most of the problems in our health care system. This all started as most socialistic boondoggles do: as the result of previous socialistic boondoggle that created a huge problem for which another socialistic boondoggle was devised to resolve. I'm talking, of course, about the FDR Administrations price and wage controls of the early 40s, which they discovered was hampering employment. So what was the answer? Provide massive tax benefits for provision of health benefits and insurance. This has led to creation of monster bureaucracy, fractured the consumer-provided insurance market, made the principal-agent problems that naturally arises with third-party provision of health coverage MUCH worse, created this idiotic coupling of employment and access to health insurance. But hey! We got employment to temporarily go up!

Furthermore, Medicare and Medicaid comprise a higher percentage of GDP than most entire single-payer systems in other countries. Combining the tax expenditure for employer-provided care raises that figure tons. The federal government is directly responsible for the creation of those HMOs. We have assinine regulations such as the prevention from buying insurance across state lines (kudos to Biden for calling this out), monopoly power of Med School accredation by the AMA, regulations keeping alternative medicine either out of the market or punishing it relative to pharmaceuticals, idiotic drug patenting laws, the shutting out of Nurse Practitioners, and benefit mandates that have increased expected payouts and wasteful expenditures that are increasing costs.

I would prefer outstanding care for the vast majority of society, into which anyone can enter, to mediocre care for everyone. I think we can get there through a true free market medicine system where health insurance that truly INSURES (i.e., covers for bad outcomes, not expenditures for routine visits and procedures) and where people have the incentives to act in ways to improve their health and minimize risk. I wouldn't mind having some type of program set up to fund, say, vouchers for the uninsured who can't afford REAL insurance with a negative health externalities tax. (For example, a cigarette tax.) In my view, this would be a way of enforcing compensation of damages to others' private property.

Sure makes the notion of the Superdelegate

seem ludicrous even if Easley wasn't being funny.

There's nothing Super about him, why should he get 69,999 more votes than me or you?

Progressive Democrats of North Carolina

Progressives are the true conservatives.

Radiogirl notes the pansy play

with her usual grace.

hillaryious - she will ask Easley for advice - lol

Wow, she'll ask Easley for advice - oh boy that should turn out well

Clinton spent a lot of time praising Easley's leadership and educational programs, and said she'd be turning to him and Mary "for advice."

"I'm going to be looking to NC to be the guide for where we need to go in public education."

Easley Pansy remark hit Wikipedia

Damn, that was fast. You can read it here.

The name pansy is derived from the French word pensée meaning "thought", and was so named because the flower resembles a human face; in August it nods forward as if deep in thought. Because of this the pansy has long been a symbol of Freethought[1] and has been used in the literature of the American Secular Union. Humanists use it too, as the pansy's current appearance was developed from the Heartsease by two centuries of intentional crossbreeding of wild plant hybrids. The Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) uses the pansy symbol extensively in its lapel pins and literature.

The word "pansy" has indicated an effeminate male since Elizabethan times and its usage as a disparaging term for a man or boy who is effeminate (as well as for an avowedly homosexual man) is still used. (There is a queercore musical band called Pansy Division, drawing on this association.) The word "ponce" (which has now come to mean a pimp) and the adjective "poncey" (effeminate) also derive from "pansy".

On April 29, 2008, Governor Mike Easley of North Carolina endorsed Hillary Clinton for the 2008 Democratic nomination for president, claiming that she made Rocky Balboa look like a pansy.

Uh Sylvester Stallone should be pissed

I mean, if you were him, wouldn't that comment offend you?

Only if being gay is somehow bad

The insult is that the term is used of gays disparagingly. It's like how Clinton runs from the term "lesbian" since she accused of being a lesbian. Instead of responding "Thanks for the compliment, but no, I'm not". She reinforces the view that being a "lesbian" is an insult by running from it.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

No I mean that comparing Hillary to Stallone is an insult

thats what I meant.

Hillary is no Rocky nor is she a Stallone.

Where could I get a RED pansy?

I've never seen them that color.

Followed your link A and found this....A Pansy for your Thoughts

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

Words . . .

`I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. `Of course you don't -- till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

`But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master -- that's all.'

~sigh~

n/t

I'm with JJ...

Dictionary says that "pansy" has two distinct definitions.

One is a disparaging term for homosexual. One just means a weak boy.

But I had honestly never heard it used as anything other than just plain weak. (Directed at both girls and boys.) Maybe I just don't hang out with enough people who have a rich vocabulary of derogatory words for gay...

Easley's comment

For God's sake, Rocky is a fictional character. Don't you think calling the comment a gay slur is over reacting just a bit?

No. I don't.

And frankly, with respect to my friend the Captain, who is a devoted Hillary Clinton supporter, this has nothing to do with presidential politics for me, any more, and nothing to do with Rocky Balboa, for God's sake. It has every thing to do with holding a publicly elected official (Michael Easley) accountable for what he said. He used a word that is an offensive word to many of his constituents. Words matter. They do. I swear to god they do, and this one does.

It seems inoffensive; it seems mild. Those are the ones that are the worst. They insinuate themselves into the language, and it is the child who is different who pays for it. An boy who likes music and dance is called a pansy. A girl who is athletic and muscular is called a tomboy. They can go along with the teasing, they can try to hide who they are, they can fight, or they can hide in the closet.

Adults let words like "pansy" go, because it's not 'fag' or 'homo'. It's not that bad, really. But words matter - and just because you don't want these particular words to matter doesn't make them matter less.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

New to Me, Also

I had never heard the word "pansy" to mean "homosexual". I have been following this thread and did not want to think I was super-sheltered, so I checked with several friends. They had never heard it to mean "gay men", either. Either way you look at it the quote doesn't make sense unless you take his meaning to be "weak".

That is exactly the point, micandacam

There are two interpretations of Easley's remark:

She makes Rocky Balboa look like a homosexual!

Or

She makes Rocky Balboa look like a wimp!

The first one makes no sense and is offensive to a significant segment of our society. I can't believe any politician would utter it, especially in this day and age of people blowing every remark they can out of proportion (yes, Bluenc has entered into this realm).

The second one makes all the sense in the world for the point he was trying to make, considering that he preceded the remark with something along the lines of, I like strong women! Wimp is the opposite of strong, ergo, "Hillary Clinton is so strong, she makes Rocky Balboa look weak."

I doubt see how anybody can interpret Easley's remark in any other way.

Mmm, no, I've addressed this

Both contexts are derogatory.

The second context is not "She makes Rocky look weak", the second context is "She more manly than a man."

Yeah, that's not insulting.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

They are both derogatory

ABOUT ROCKY BALBOA!!

He's not even a real person!

But again, like your compadre Linda, you miss the point.

One is interpreted as a derogatory slam against homosexuals.

The other is not.

That is the whole crux of this matter. So I will ask you just like I have asked Linda, which do you think he meant?

Okay Teepack

I know he didn't MEAN it to be a gay slur. But what he meant really isn't always the point. He didn't mean to decimate the mental health system in North Carolina, but the effect is there for all to see. He didn't mean to break the law by telling his staff to destroy emails, but the erosion of trust in government is there for all to see. He didn't mean to ridicule gays, but I have three gay friends who found his "meaninglessness" offensive and out of line.

You win. He didn't mean anything. He was just being a dumb ass.

It was stupid

Then again, what do you expect from Governor Bubba?

The governor is not stupid

Easley is a lot of things, but he is far from stupid.

Not sure why you call him Bubba. He's the least "Bubba" governor we've hard in recent memory. (Well, wait, Jim Martin wasn't very Bubba, either.)

In any event, I actually expected a lot from him at one time, but have been disabused of illusions about Easley's integrity these last two years.

I hate it when I have to give up admiring someone, because having a sense of admiration for a person is uplifting. It SHORE DOES HURT though when you realize what a naive dingaling you've been. But again, that has nothing to do with his intelligence, which I'm convinced is pretty high.

I'm wondering if he thinks Hillary can win, though. Maybe it doesn't matter, since it costs him nothing to endorse her and he's still likely to reap some form of thanks for it. He might be figuring she's not going to fade into the background even if she loses this primary, so there may be some future prospects for him for which Clinton assistance is deemed useful.

It's harder to figure why Hillary thinks that his endorsement is going to help. I guess she figures it can't hurt at this point.

It's irritating to know that there's some danged definitive answer to this question that we'd all be privvy to if we were at the right megabucks fundraiser, clinking expensive crystalware with smoothly groomed fat cats.

If you look all big-eyed at 'em, they love to show off their gossip. (Important advice: never wear birkenstocks to these events -- it tips 'em off)

damn.

I forgot. No birkenstocks.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Uncle Tom isn't a real person either

so I'm sure that if you called a black person an "Uncle Tom" they wouldn't be the least bit offended.

(Of course, Uncle Tom gets a bad rap, but I didn't imbue the term with its meaning, I just report on it).

Trying to defend "pansy" as not being a gay slur is like trying to defend "tar baby" as an innocent term for a "sticky mess". Politicians, especially ones claiming to be Democrats, should know better.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Just answer my question

Did Easley mean to say:

She makes Rocky Balboa look like a homosexual?

Or, She makes Rocky Balboa look like a wimp/weakling?

Remember, the word has two meanings, according to Dictionary.com:

3. Slang: Disparaging and Offensive.
a. a male homosexual.
b. a weak, effeminate, and often cowardly man.

So I ask you again, which meaning do you think Easley was using?

"Uncle Tom" is inherently

"Uncle Tom" is inherently offensive - it is itself a slur -and has an ugly history associated with just that term. Rocky Balboa is a fictional character who is the object (and only target) of Easley's "turrible, just turrible" denigration.

If there are multiple possible meanings, and some of them are not intended to state that Rocky Balboa, then your original post is wrong and unnecessarily inflammatory.

1) Only bigots use words like "pansy", specifically bigots who are frightfully insecure about their own sexuality and have to denigrate others with childish taunts to feel good.

Are you going to defend or disavow it? Bringing up even MORE inflammatory, yet irrelevant, comparisons (like the Nazis and "Uncle Tom"?) doesn't really enhance the logic of your argument.

I personally think it's pretty sick to use the word bigot in a public forum for emotional effect.

Rocky Balboa is not at issue. Michael Easley is.

He is a real person, who is the Governor of this state. He used a word that is accepted by documented sources as a derogatory slur towards gay men. I'm sorry that you can't see that, but that is the issue.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

it is also accepted by documented sources as a term for a whimp.

nt

And tar baby

can refer to a difficult problem. It just isn't the one that comes to most people's minds when it is used.

And it is NOT a "documented" term for whimp, the recurring word in the other definition is "effeminate".

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Do you think you're

Do you think you're justified in using the word bigot? Since we're parsing someone else's words and intentions 100+ posts-worth of carefully...

Yes, I do

The issue has been percolating for two days now with no comment from Easley.

If he does comment, it will be the standard "non-apology apology".

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

It is also accepted by

It is also accepted by documented sources as having popular uses OTHER than derogatory slurs towards gay men. (As evidenced by my Miriam Webster dictionary and the "Whaaaaa?"s of other people on the boards.)

If the phrase is equally susceptible (and in fact if all signs point towards the use for "weak") to two meanings, and one is possibly bigoted and one just a humorous insult,

1) you should probably give the Governor the benefit of the doubt before calling him a "bigot" and
2) you inherently cannot say that the term is ONLY used by "bigots," as Kosh did in his front-paged post.

THAT is the point that Kosh doesn't respond to.

In my 47 years

The term has always been used in a derogatory fashion implying homosexuality of a man behaving like a woman (because being woman is obviously a bad thing)

I have also addressed this whole "benefit of a doubt" nonsense as well.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

In your 47 years...

I guess you've missed a few posts on liberal blogs also using "pansy" to mean "weak."

Hehe... at least two prominent BlueNC posters have previously used "Pansy" to mean "weak/wimpy/uptight." One called Liddy Dole a pansy. Nobody seemed to care until it got all caught up in the Hillary/Obama/Easley drama. But I guess they're bigots too?

Edit: Bigots who are insecure about their sexuality... yada yada yada... childish insults to make themselves feel better.

Again, the priciple dictionary definitions are

Slur: Male Homosexual
Slur: Effeminate man.

Both are insults.

Calling Elizabeth Dole a "pansy" would be incorrect in either context. I stand by my judgment of those who use "pansy" in the context used by Easley.

People's failure to understand the words they use is not a mitigating factor. We are in a written medium and as such, proper understanding of words and their meanings is required. The accepted arbiters of such disputes are dictionaries, and every one consulted (and referenced here) backs up my definition of the word.

I didn't see the posts you refer to, since if I had, I would certainly have pointed out that calling Dole a "pansy" would be wrong on several levels, starting with the textbook definition.

Oh, and "uptight"?? Not mentioned in ANY definition.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Some definitions and

Some definitions and dictionaries agree with you. (American Heritage) You are conveniently ignoring the ones that don't. (Miriam Webster - A "weak OR effeminate man or boy.")

Nope, not conveniently ignoring anything

Count how many times the word "effeminate" is used, versus "weak".

Offline sources concur with this view.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

You are missing the point

perhaps deliberately, I don't know.

The poster brought up the point that Rocky Balboa was a fictional person, which I inferred to mean that somehow the remark is excusable since it refers to a fictional person.

My response was somewhat flip, in that Uncle Tom was a fictional person as well, but a deadly slur, none the less. In a parenthetical aside I commented on the unfortunate meaning of the term, a reference to the fact that the character in the original story is arguably noble and heroic, and not an "Uncle Tom" in the current sense of the term.

I have not backed away from my original post, but simply pointed out that claiming there is an alternate interpretation doesn't help, as the alternate context becomes misogynistic rather than homophobic.

As to reference to Nazis, I assume you refer to my cooment to Easley and his ilk as Vichy Dems, well sorry you didn't like it. Would "collaborator" suit you better? Still has that "Nazi" affiliation though.

Bigotry is about assumed behaviors based on people race, creed or sex. Both uses of "pansy" trade on bigotry, either anti-gay or anti-female.

Sorry, but as I pointed out, using pansy and trying to claim it is inoffensive doesn't work, any more than trying to use the word "tar baby" with the same defense.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Bigotry.

Check the dictionary on bigotry, since we're in the written medium and all. Assumed behaviors based on people race, creed or sex is closest to stereotyping. Then there's prejudice. Then there's bigotry.

Dictionary.com: stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

AmericanHeritage: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Mirriam-Webster: : a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

Bigots do not appoint gay judges and do not include a prohibition of discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity or expression in the state personnel manual. Bigots are not called allies nor are the ever endorsed by EqualityNC.

Bigots do many things

especially if it serves a purpose beneficial to them. One could say that bigots do not appear in black churches praising MLK, but Bush did it many times.

That aside, I know family members who do not think then have a bigoted bone in their body, who actually hire minorities and treat them well, tell "jokes" using words like "nigger" in them.

You could claim they are not bigoted, but sadly, they are. The use of such language is hurtful, and polarizing, and even when uttered in hushed tones to non-minorities, offensive.

Character is who you are in the dark.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Sigh.

Character is who you are in the dark.

I'll hang that up on the wall in a first-grade classroom. In the meantime, your post was again nonresponsive to the difference between the words stereotyping, prejudice, and bigot.

In response to my posts about why you applied the word "bigot" - a pretty damning term that the dictionaries disagree with your definition on - to specifically the Governor you tell me about your racist family members and George Bush.

The continuing argument by analogy to Uncle Toms, n*word, tar baby, and the Nazi Germans just doesn't work for me here -- the n* word and pansy are WORLDS apart, especially since LOTS of people don't know that pansy has an offensive alternate definition. If you can't respond specifically to the question I'm just going to have to have to assume it's because you can't cobble together a decent answer that's actually responsive.

In any blog discussion

that goes on beyond a certain point, digressions and meta-discussion will occur. Specific digressions will involve how someone has come to form a particular opinion. Meta-discussions will involve specific meanings of words.

Analogy and real-life examples are standard tools in discussion when one is trying to explain a complex concept. We are discussing bigotry, bigoted language and people who don't see their language as bigoted. My personal example was therefore germane to the discussion.

My discussion of the words and phrases such as "Uncle Tom", "tar baby" etc, is also appropriate and germane if you simply go back and read the reason they came up. A poster brushed aside Easley's remark as having been an insult of an fictional characters. I then pointed out that "Uncle Tom" is a fictional character, yet the term is a potent slur even though it involves a fictional character.

You and other posters have argued that "pansy" has two meanings, one derogatory, one more or less benign. I disagree with this view, but offered "tar baby" as a term that has a negative and benign definition in return. Again, a germane point to the discussion at hand.

I have also pointed out to people claiming ignorance of the term's negative connotation that an overwhelming number of sources recognize it in the context I have put forth, including a major pop culture source.

The question was asked whether Easley meant consciously this as a slam against gay people. I don't know, probably not, but it sounds like your typical Freudian slip to me. That aside, even in its secondary connotation, it loses an anti-gay meaning, but acquires an anti-female one.

In any context, it was a stupid thing to say, especially by a "seasoned" politician.

At the risk of being accused of using yet another example you don't approve of, imagine if Easley had referred to Clinton as "My nigga".

"Nigga" has two definitions, one benign ("My close friend"), the other highly offensive.

Which version would African Americans be prone to assume, REGARDLESS of Easly's OBVIOUS context?

As to my discussion of the German government (you, I believe were the first to use the term "Nazi", while I specifically chose the less emotionally-charged "German government"), this came about in reference to why I have a negative view of Easley, Clinton, and all other Dems espousing a "reach across the aisle" mentality, specifically, they are collaborating with the enemy and lending them legitimacy.

This is no longer a matter of "bringing a knife to a gun fight", it has now reached the level of bringing a strongly-worded letter of protest to the St. Valentine's Day Massacre. These people are helping BushCo destroy the country.

Finally, the fact that you don't like my answer, does not mean I haven't answered your question. I addressed directly each point you brought up.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Here is my take on your argument

My discussion of the words and phrases such as "Uncle Tom", "tar baby" etc, is also appropriate and germane if you simply go back and read the reason they came up. A poster brushed aside Easley's remark as having been an insult of an fictional characters. I then pointed out that "Uncle Tom" is a fictional character, yet the term is a potent slur even though it involves a fictional character.

You are missing the obvious counter point to your argument. Calling Rocky a homosexual makes absolutely no sense in that context. Likewise, the term Uncle Tom refers to a character in a novel whose name has become a slur. Last I checked, calling someone Rocky didn't imply any sort of slur. Also, while tar baby may have an acceptable use, I don't think anyone ever thinks of that. They automatically think of the racial slur.

You and other posters have argued that "pansy" has two meanings, one derogatory, one more or less benign. I disagree with this view, but offered "tar baby" as a term that has a negative and benign definition in return. Again, a germane point to the discussion at hand.

Unlike Pansy, tar baby as a slur has a wide cultural base. You will not find a single person who does not think tar baby is a slur. You will find many, probably more so, that view pansy as a benign word.

I have also pointed out to people claiming ignorance of the term's negative connotation that an overwhelming number of sources recognize it in the context I have put forth, including a major pop culture source.

The thing with slang, is that depending on the cultural and social groupings, words taken on entirely different meanings. If you don't believe me, just look up the word peanut butter on urban dictionary. It is also a selective usage of definitions. You can just as easily point to this definition: 5. pansy 91 up, 22 down

someone very pathetic and wimpy, generally used as an insult against both sexes. often confused with fag, sissyand other rather small-minded terms for a homosexual man.

but you don't because it works against your argument.

The question was asked whether Easley meant consciously this as a slam against gay people. I don't know, probably not, but it sounds like your typical Freudian slip to me. That aside, even in its secondary connotation, it loses an anti-gay meaning, but acquires an anti-female one.

Yes, because Governor Easley has this deep down fear and hatred of homosexuals. Likewise, the second definition isn't anti-female. Whether or not you want to accept it, society has a long established and developed idea of gender roles. Yes there are people that break those gender roles every day, but that does not mean those gender roles do not exist. Girls have Barbies and guys have GI Joes. Different is not deficient.

At the risk of being accused of using yet another example you don't approve of, imagine if Easley had referred to Clinton as "My nigga".

"Nigga" has two definitions, one benign ("My close friend"), the other highly offensive.

That word has been long established as a slur. Pansy, as evidence by many people not know about the homosexual aspect of it, does not.

As to my discussion of the German government (you, I believe were the first to use the term "Nazi", while I specifically chose the less emotionally-charged "German government"), this came about in reference to why I have a negative view of Easley, Clinton, and all other Dems espousing a "reach across the aisle" mentality, specifically, they are collaborating with the enemy and lending them legitimacy.

A rose by any other name is still a rose. Just becuase you didn't initial post Nazi, but instead German Government does not mean that the meaning is not there. One isn't going to automatically assume the Holy Roman Empire, especially in a discussion like this.

Oh, and god forbid people work together to get something accomplished. And calling people who have different political views as you "the enemy" is extremely childish and is the mentality that has been destroying politics. There are no goodies and badies. Just people who disagree.

Queer here...

And I voted for Easley 4 years ago. And just days ago, I voted for Hagan and Hillary Clinton.

This topic is almost as stupid as the amount of time people have devoted to debating it...almost

Guess you just got in your 20 seconds of stupid, too?

Just kidding.

It's weird how some topics ignite, especially among people who like to write, which many bloggers do.

Forgot to add

Did you watch the debate between Hagan and Neal tonight? He totally kicked her butt in every way imaginable. You may be queer, but that doesn't mean you have good judgment.

And as voting for Hillary "We'll Obliterate Iran" Clinton? Maybe you hold stock in defense contractors?

:)

I am amazed this post

has resulted in 80+ comments so far.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

And yet,

the cynical part of me wonders that if the circumstances were reversed and Obama was the one present when the remark was made, you wouldn't be buffing your dudgeon and placing it on the highest shelf possible.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

I'd be just as pissed - and I'd be down at the Obama HQ

telling them exactly what I thought.

But then again - it wasn't Hillary Clinton who said it, was it? It was Easley. He's kind of been on my list for a while. The Mental Health fiasco is just the beginning of tip of the iceberg with him.

And yeah, I voted for him.

It was a good post, and it was important, Kosh. It generated a lot of posts because I can't let something go if I think it's important. My better half can tell you that. I've spent many a night on the couch because of it! : )

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

As an Obama supporter

you can take your cynicism and place it some place else.

Cold cynicism will serve you better

than the "benefit of a doubt" when dealing with politicians.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Pissing on the Democrat establishment parade

And I voted for Easley 4 years ago. And just days ago, I voted for Hagan and Hillary Clinton.

This topic is almost as stupid as the amount of time people have devoted to debating it...almost*NCLawKid

Well! You have proven to be consistent! No doubt you are from the political school of establishment stupidity and a victim of your own stupidity. It apppears that you have piss into the establishment wind and now think it is rain. Have you consider joining the lite wing of the Republican party?

Max, you old dog.

Have you consider joining the lite wing of the Republican party?

Tell Madame Justice to give you an extra hug tonight.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Actually, you are anonymous here - you can say you're anything

for all we know you are a 500 pound heterosexual male who lives in his mother's basement.

For all you know I'm a 80 year old man with a key board and working out of a secret enclave.

Give me a break!

I believe this whole thread is a little over the top. It appears that some are just looking for something over which to cry "foul." I honestly do not think the gov was trying to slam the gays while endorsing Hillary. Give us all a break and cry over something else.

You got it.

25 points for the pun

Persondem is allotted 10 points for the pun and 15 points for the shamelessness of the pun.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

25 points, Yeah me!! Yep shameless. I don't think I've ever met

a pun I didn't like.

Thank you, Brunette.

I'll take Medical Puns for 50 points please.

Person County Democrats

Of course he wasn't trying to.

He just did. He didn't have to try to do it; it was unconscious - a tossed off joke.
Doesn't make it right.

And I don't care if any one of you thinks I'm being too sensitive or politically correct about this. I really don't. I don't think I'm right - I know I'm right.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

It is this nonsense

that causes people to completely turn off when real slurs are used.

We have gone 100% too pc.

No, this is what causes people to think it's okay to call names

that make little kids hide in the bathroom instead of playing outside or eating lunch.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Are you nuts?

Wait, I shouldn't say nuts bcaus we all know nuts are a euphamism for testicles and is therefore denigrating to men, but back to the point.

calling someone fat, or pizza face, or any number of insults causes little kids to hide in the bathroom instead of playing outside or eating lunch. That doesn't make them a homophobic slur or pansy for that matter.

No, I'm not nuts.

And I'm not wrong, either.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

If we just generally don't like childish name-calling...

Then half the posters on BlueNC have lost half their vocabularies!

nyah. nyah. nyah :) edited

EDIT

That's not true, anyhow. Most of the time the conversation here is well above the standard fare served up on the inter-tubes.

Kosh has backed up his post and his opinion with logic; I've supported him with documentation. Those disagreeing have used anecdotal "I've never used it that way" or "I didn't know that" as evidence that Kosh's assertion was wrong. Oh, I forgot about Rocky Balboa being a fictional character negating Easley's faux pas. That was another failed attempt at arguing this one down.

The word "pansy" has been used as a derogatory term since at least 1929. Easley is old enough and wise enough to have used another word. He's a politician and a lawyer; words are his business. He chose poorly. If he didn't think so then, he knows so now. National media has made note of it.

With that, I bid you good night.

Great job, Kosh.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

So would that leave us with1/4 of our brain?

Mr. poo poo head? :P

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

What a break!

I would definitely cry over a break like that! I guess I am a pansy after all.

Ha!

LOL

I needed that. Good one Downtown Charlie.

And welcome. Always happy to have more people who can write complete sentences.

Jesse Helms told me Jim Hunt's "in with the queers"

Does anybody remember that gay-baiting boondogle? Now that was a gay-baiting boondoggle for the books. Easley has a long way to go.

Howdy Doody

The fact that there are multiple meanings for the word "faggot" doesn't excuse its use as a slur.

The Doody family hope to raise profile of faggots

The Doody family from Wolverhampton has been crowned The Faggot Family in a national competition, and to kick off their reign they will launch National Faggot Week.

That line of reasoning need to stop. There are too many words that fall in this category, hence the term "double entendre". From the quicky Wiki:

The Oxford English Dictionary defines it as 'A double meaning; a word or phrase having a double sense, especially as used to convey an indelicate meaning' [emphasis added]. In these cases, the first meaning is presumed to be the more innocent one, while the second meaning is risqué, or at least ironic, requiring the hearer to have some additional knowledge.

If the Governor called Rocky a faggot

you might have a point. But he didn't.

Funny picture! Not a good comparison though.

I remembered people snickering in the 5th grade over a story with someone collecting a fagot of wood. There are maybe 7 people alive in America today who don't think that "faggot" is primarily used to refer to homosexuals.

There are lots of full-grown adults on this thread of enlightened non-bigots who had NEVER heard "pansy" used to refer to a homosexual. In this case, it was clearly more susceptible to the non-offensive common usage.

And yet.

The slur is well known enough to be documented in sources such as Merriam-Webster, OED, and other accepted documentarians of language.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Once again,

As I have pointed out. Folks can argue that there are two connotations for "pansy", which is true. One of homophobic, the other misogynistic. Both are inappropriate.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Ok, fixed my link upthread and now you can find a third meaning

for Pansy....a free thinker. Yea, that's what Mr. Easley meant - that Rocky Balboa makes Hillary look like a free thinker!

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

Progressive Discussions

Ha!

Very funny.

Oh boy, silly politics time at Blue NC

You're right. Easley should have just called him a wimp. If only to avoid this kind of the-meaning-of-is-is bs.

Can we move on?

But if we move on

I won't be able to start on my second rant, people who were spelling "wimp" with a damned "h" for some reason.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Thank HEAVENS someone has taken note of this!

Just when I was about to say, 'Oh, I think we're done here," Kosh rallies with this matter of spelling "wimp" with an "h."

Kosh, I'm with ya man. I look at "whimp" and think, 'WHAT?" What the . . . WHY would someone . . .!@#$%^& But you know, for some reason, I am always tempted to spell 'WACKED' with an "h." I think the "h" adds emphasis to the pronunciation, ands extra heft to the word. If I think someone is really far out there, I want to go ahead and add that "h.'

Whew. Glad I got that off my chest.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

Yup. I'm going to bring flowers to you.

at the JJ on Friday.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Well in THAT case

I look just like I sound. Short, frazzled, glasses that don't sit exactly level on my nose, with probably more gray in the brunette than I'm ready to celebrate.

I have no idea what I'm wearing, but I'll be with my Dad, who looks kind of like what John Sununu would look like if he weighed somewhat less and were actually handsome.

This reminds me that I haven't picked up tickets yet. Gotta get that done . . .

Are you going to with a group? How many?

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

There will be 3 of us.

I look like my picture, pretty much. On any given day, I can't tell you what the rest of us look like. Seriously.

I don't know how much we'll be able to mix and mingle - we'll be sitting with the dirty unwashed, and there you'll be, mixing with the royalty. I'll pm you my cell number.

Your dad sounds wonderful.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

I don't look anything like my picture

which closely resembles a plant. It is, in fact, a picture of a plant (though not a flower, as the Colonel, bless his heart, surmised).

My Dad and I will be sitting there staring around us. We both do that in crowds. Very obvious. We just turn and gape and then turn the other way and gape, blinking, sometimes with our mouths hanging open in an unflattering way.

He really is wonderful. He happens to be one of the finest human beings I've ever known, so I feel quite fortunate to have his company for this event.

I don't have a cell, but I think he will have his, so do PM me your number and we'll find each other.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke

No, I don't think we can.

What do you have to add to this conversation besides "can we move on?" You've only been a member of this blog for 15 minutes, so you're hardly part of "we", you can't be tired of us, so ...what is it that you're tired of? The discussion? Please, click on the track changes link at the top right hand corner of your page, and find another discussion in which to be involved, if you have nothing of value to add to this conversation.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Pam's the word

I'll let Pam Spaulding's post at Pandagon have the last word, quoting activist Phil Attey:

The statement was calculated and hateful. Americans over the age of 50 are fully aware that the word “pansy” is that generation’s polite way of publicly saying the word “faggot.” Both Governor Easley and Senator Clinton are of that generation, and both of them know what he meant by the word. This was not a slip of the tongue.

but but but Boseman is endorsing Hillary

but but but is Julie old enough to remember?

I am and uh I'm not 50, not that there's anything wrong with being 50.

Hillary isn't the one who used the slur

and Boseman has a right to endorse whomever she chooses.

It's not about Hillary. It's about Easley.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

I've asked a lot of people over the age of 50

And none of them knew the homosexual aspect of the word.

Words, especially slang, take on different conotations based upon region and social groupings.

It is too big an assumption to believe that everyone over the age of 50 knows that pansy has that alternative meaning.

Hm. Last word from Obama activist?

n/t

Oh No!

Not ACTIVISM!!!!!!!!!11111

No problem with "activism"...

Problem isn't "activism" but that from what I can tell from a Google search it's recently been pro-Obama/anti-Hillary "activism." If we're going to let someone have the final say, "last word" and all, wouldn't it be fair to tell us that's pretty entrenched in the Obama camp?

I think this thread has seen some very level-headed people be influenced less by their deep personal offense to the word "pansy" and more by their anti-Hillary/anti-Easley/pro-Obama feelings. (I know there are some exceptions up-thread.)

Her name is Julia

And she is a good person- and a good politician. As Democrats we should be proud that our only lesbian legislator has been asked to campaign with the former POTUS.

I am proud of Julia- and I am proud of my candidate for President.

You should be proud of Julia Boseman

She's represented her district well.

And I would hope you'd be proud of the candidate you're supporting for President, otherwise there'd be big problem.

The only person I'm not proud of in this in Michael Easley.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

This will be my last post on the matter

I think it's very telling that neither Kosh nor Linda, the two who seem to have worked themselves into a frenzy over this whole thing, will not answer a simple, direct question. Several posters have established that there are two clear meanings for the word pansy - a weak person, or a homosexual. I have asked each of them several times in this thread to let me know which definition they thought Easley was using, and neither will answer. Instead, they just start on another rant about how we don't get it or about how ignorant we are for not knowing.

The reason they won't answer the question is because they know it's a trick question. If they answer that Easley was using the homosexual definition (i.e. She makes Rocky Balboa look like a homosexual!), they know they will be wrong and will lose a lot of respect from folks on the boards because it is clear to any rational thinker that Easley was not saying that. If they correctly answer that Easley was using the wimp definition (i.e. She makes Rocky Balboa look like a wimp), then they will have just admitted to the fact that they took his answer out of context just to make a mountain out of a molehill. Either way, they can't win. Which is why they won't answer the question.

Based on this thread, at least five posters - myself, jjsmith, NC MacTech, Blueridge and macandacam - all said they were unaware that pansy could be used in a derogatory fashion to describe a homosexual man prior to Easley's pronouncement. (By the way, this doesn't make us ignorant or bigoted against homosexuals. I bet there are young folks today who are not aware that the word spade can be used as a derogatory reference to an African-American person, but that doesn't mean they are racist.) So for Linda and Kosh to assume that Easley did know this is unfair to Easley. Perhaps he did, perhaps he didn't. I don't know.

Was it a bad choice of words? Yes, no doubt.
Was it done in a calculated and hateful manner? Give me a break.

I do agree with Kosh on one thing - there is no 'h' in wimp!

I was unable to answer your question last night, teepack

because the thread was closed.

I believe it was calculated. Easley is a lawyer and a politician. Both of those professions trade in words and words alone. I believe it was a word meant to stand in for homosexual. I know you disagree with me. ::shrug:: From what I've read of your other posts, we're not likely to agree on much, except perhaps we have the freedom to disagree.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Thanks.

And maybe I just am completely not up on offensive terms of yesteryear, but ... spade??? Who knew??

I guess we are just uneducated

I had no idea I was so out of the loop when it comes to slurs.

In the loop on slurs

JJ, you stick with us and we'll l'arn you some slurs.

And I don't mean no pansy-ass ambiguous slurs, neither. (WHOOOPS~)

I'm talking can't be printed, can't be discussed or dissected 'cause they can't be printed slurs. We gotcher slurs right here where no hi-falutin' NYTimes article dare tread kinda slurs. KEEP your eyes peeled and your smelling salts ready!

I'm not going to answer for them, but

I think it's very telling that neither Kosh nor Linda, the two who seem to have worked themselves into a frenzy over this whole thing, will not answer a simple, direct question. Several posters have established that there are two clear meanings for the word pansy - a weak person, or a homosexual. I have asked each of them several times in this thread to let me know which definition they thought Easley was using, and neither will answer. Instead, they just start on another rant about how we don't get it or about how ignorant we are for not knowing.

let me clarify the last sentence there: the rants are because a few posters here have claimed they had no idea that the word "pansy" could ever be used to infer that a male might be a homosexual, which is absolute horseshit.

It's not that you're ignorant, it's because you (and others) are claiming something that simply could not be true (in the here and now). But there's no way for anybody to prove you're being disingenuous, so the argument continues in a circular fashion.

As for your question about whether Easley actually meant a "weak, girlish male" or a homosexual, I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he meant the former. But that far from excuses the usage, as it's still wrapped up in sexual connotations and inferred judgment.

Make no mistake, I'm not trying to convince you, because I think you already know all this stuff. But I can't prove it, and I'm not going to waste a whole lot of time trying.

And for anout the third time

I answered your question.

Which originally was:

She makes Rocky Balboa look like a homosexual?

Or

She makes Rocky Balboa look like a wimp?

I explained that the two definitions of "pansy" are:

slur: male homosexual
slur: effeminate male

The word "wimp" doesn't appear in the definition.

Someone else mentioned "or weak", but the recurring word was "effeminate", with "weak" appearing less frequently.

So, your question is properly:

She makes Rocky Balboa look like a homosexual?

Or

She makes Rocky Balboa look like a effeminate man?

I then explained that NEITHER context casts Easley in a good light.

If we are going to argue about the meaning of words, then we must stick to the actual definitions appearing most frequently in the reference texts, and not inject words that don't actually appear in the definition. This confuses the argument.

Since you and others insist that "many" people don't have my view of the term pansy, I have consulted UrbanDictionary.com, which is like a Wiki, but allows people to vote on definition as they think they best apply. The UD is VERY much the venue of the under-30 crowd, so I would think it indicative of the accepted definition of the word "pansy" as seen by today's youth.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pansy

A sissy, fag, fairy, or one that is generally unmanly.

614 approve of this definition, 112 oppose.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.

Seriously.

Did not know it was a slur synonymous with homosexual. Can see how it would be offensive as-applied, and I certainly accept that it IS a slur synonymous with homosexual in one major usage of the word. Maybe it says a lot about my generation, but 10 years ago when I was in high school people were wearing "Let's get one thing straight... I'm not" t-shirts. I'm sure there was taunting, but I don't think the jocks were at home googling the etymology of offensive slurs looking for new and creative ways to insult our out gay students. And my hometown was about as far from a gay friendly utopia as you could get.

I honestly do think there's some kind of generation gap with this word. You think it's ubiquitous, I'd never heard it used to mean gay. (And even if I have actually heard it used with that intent, I just interpreted it to mean weak or effeminate.)

Top Ten List

Top ten observations of the Gov’s reference to a “pansy:”

10. He was trying to be hip like Gov. Arnold who talked of “girlie boys or Nancy boys.” At least he did not say, "Puff, puff, pansy."
9. He was only trying to show us what it will be like if we elect Fred as governor.
8. He actually thought it was a line from the Johnny Cash song, “A Boy Named Sue.”
7. He was trying to shift the focus off the deleted emails and get into a discussion of “the birds and the bees” and agape love and eros and the NCDOT. It worked.
6. I did not even realize we still had a governor. He keeps such a low profile he gets nervous when speaking in public.
5. He wanted to take the attention off Rev. Wright by also saying something stupid.
4. He thought “pansy” was the same thing as calling Hillary “Billary.”
3. He got confused about that Rocky business. The only Rocky he watched was the Rocky on the Bullwinkle show.
2. He thought that the gay issue was settled when we passed the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Kiss and Tell” amendment to the Constitution.

1. He denounces all those who say we in NC are not tolerant of gays! The latest press release states: “Show me one North Carolinian who does not love Gomer Pyle! That should be proof enough that we are one big happy family. And I think Aunt Bee’s middle name was ‘Pansy.”

P.S. We all love Gomer. Well, except maybe for that Max fellow over at the Red Clay Pit. He don’t like nobody.

(I would imagine the gov is sorry he made the comment.)

#11 He's an Intermittent Gardener

(John LeCarre reference) who recently had his heart broken when he snipped off a an especially vibrant pansy, ran shouting joyously next door to show his neighbor, but when he got there, he observed through his welling tears that the poor flower had not survived the journey.

:)

big props for the reference.

what a delight :)

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

History Lessons

"queer" has multiple meanings, too. so does "gay." so does "fairy." etc.

each of these has had an arc in terms of its relation to representation of homosexuality, and within the homosexual and/or lgbt community (the latter being a relatively new configuration)

"pansy" is not just an arbitrary association with "homosexuality" or the homosexual community. There is an historical connection. The fact that people don't know this doesn't erase the history. The Pansy Craze was an early peak of gay visibility - and it definitely lead to the widespread use of the term "pansy" to mean "homosexual."

I could quote many historical and literary references to "pansy" used in this way, and I know it wouldn't satisfy the people whose argument is only "well, I didn't know that it meant this." But those people aren't hearing the real argument here. The point isn't whether you knew this was a slur. The point is that this was a slur. If a number of people recognized it for that and received it that way, it doesn't matter whether it was "intended" as a joke. There are lots of homophobic and racist jokes that aren't "meant that way." If you tell one and it hurts people, you say you're sorry and don't tell it again. That's all there is to it.

Thanks thisniss (love the name)

There are apparently those who think "I didn't mean it that way, therefore, to hell with whoever it hurt, I shall tell it again and again." I believe that those are the folks who may never get it.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

To know you are right about

To know you are right about what another's intended meaning is a great gift--but really, I don't think any of us here have this ability. I was aware of both meanings for pansy, but don't believe Easley intended to imply that anyone was gay ('though if he did, it's sad that this would be an insult).

Unlike some racially charged terms, many people (many of whom are blogging here) didn't realize that pansy is a slur implying homosexuality. Easley should be called on his use of the term, but not as a bigot--isn't it about educating people, not condemning them? If you get way too high on your high horse no one (who will benefit from it) will hear you. And if it turns out that Easley meant to imply the Rocky was gay--you still called him on it.

What I find interesting, however, is that no one ever (forgive me if this blog has, I'm new) talks about the sexism against Hillary. Love her or hate her (or luke warm) she is an accomplished women deserving basic respect. I don't mean she shouldn't face criticism (her recent knuckle-headed support for repealing the gas tax for example), but why should Easley feel compelled to compare her to a mutant, steroid pumping, high-testosterone fictional character as a means of offering his support? McCain is ancient, even he admits his VP selection is more important than for most candidates, but no one seems to think he would benefit from being portrayed as Conan the Barbarian. And NO ONE has commented on the width of his, or Obama's A#$. No one has suggested that either of the male candidates dresses frumpy either, or that they showed too much cleavage. See eg., http://">http://womensspace.wordpress.com/2008/01/09/running-for-president-while-female/. Hillary is a B%$#@ when she presents herself forcefully; whereas, the men are simply forceful.

In this country, I think women are still viewed as interlopers when they push for positions of real power and the media and others still push back to put the woman in her place. On another blog I read recently, someone suggested that, because no woman has ever been president, Hillary should seek a VP position instead of president. I haven't read or heard anyone suggesting that the first black man with a decent chance at the white house should accept the number two position. Neither should back down from their goal--and neither should be asked to. The election process, however, bizarre, will resolve the matter. But still, as the process unfolds, a more critical eye to the language used by persons speaking for or against Hillary is needed.

Welcome

Nice first post here. Glad to have a new good writer in the mix.

Have been around here since Day One, I can't say that a lot of attention has been given to the deep thread of institutional sexism that runs through our political fabric. We cover it some ... most folks here are pretty solid in their feminist credentials ... but mostly we don't spend a lot of time on national politics.

In the gubernatorial race, critics of Bev Perdue occasionally slip into gender-based criticisms, but most of the discussion seems pretty above board.

As to what Mike Easley means by anything, well that's anyone's guess.

Hi,

Hi,
Here I am.
So very up in arms.
Not so much even at the "slur" as those who don't even understand the meaning of the slur. It is not their fault, to not know.
Insofar as intended meaning, yes, I see it only one way. It is a word which comes from my time, the time of Hillary Clinton and Governor Easley. At at time when the public at large didn't associate "pansy" with a flower but with a boy like me. A boy who couldn't help the fact that he liked other boys, and didn't know how to be "normal", a boy from the time before "gay rights".
Can you understand at all that THEY are from this "time"?
It that had happened to Obama, I would give a very good chance that he would at least diffused the word in some manner. Good grief. I suppose it's true, nobody can say another's intended meaning BUT I can in their youth, Hillary and Easley, "PANSY" WAS NOT A FLOWER. IT WAS ONE OF US TERRIBLY PERVERTED HOMOSEXUAL KIDS. "Nobody can say?", You have no idea what it was like in their time, in my time? I CAN say. They both KNOW DAMN GOOD AN WELL WHAT THAT WORD INFERS TO OLDER AUDIENCES.
I was there with them at the receiving end of that word, and yes, I CAN SAY.

I certainly have nothing against a women for President. I would cherish it had nothing better to be seen.
The fact is, for the gay community, Hillary Clinton did nothing more than lip sync before Bill's election and nothing when she had power as first lady.
Hillary Clinton, as first lady, alienated Congress with her arrogance.
The Clinton people are "go for blood" politicians. When they didn't like something the press said, the press who said it was contacted and often threatened.

I cannot see Hillary Clinton as a strong woman. I can only see her as a schemer with an agenda to power.
What "strong woman" cries before a primary because...
I DO NOT WANT A PRESIDENT WHO CRIES UNDER PRESSURE, MALE OR FEMALE.
What person running for Presidential office is just now "finding his/her voice"? Finding yourself is for therapy not Presidency.

Quite frankly, the truth, a strong woman does not call on the front runner in the campaign to take a back seat as her vice President. Only an arrogant self-serving person would do such a thing.
Good Grief, sometimes we can be a bit too sensitive to womans' issues? I mean, to the point of being hoodwinked. Sometimes I think that Hillary would make a very good Republican,only because in the past few years they have gained power by character assassination and we allowed a President who can't even speak proper English to take office. What the hell do we expect and what the hell will we expect from a woman who would be the 'runner up' in the public arena and "stay the course" even if it called for splitting her Democratic Party.
I would say she is not so strong as she is arrogant. A strong woman would have quizzed the front runner as to her vice Presidency possibilities (which would have guaranteed a Democrat in the office. Only an arrogant, self-serving person would treat the person she is trailing as an insignificant. I am all for woman's rights but, I am not for woman's tearful charms or arrogance.

Anyone who thinks....

... the use of "pansy" here is a gay slur is grasping at hilarious straws that aren't there.
But let me tell you something. As a gay man, if you want to talk about anti-gay, then we talk about Barack Obama. Not only has he refused to talk to gay press, state after state, but he has the permanent black eye of the Donnie McClurkin controversy.
You have Obama soliciting anti-gay gospel singer McClurkin's support. You have McClurkin telling crowds at Obama campaign events in South Carolina about how "god saved me from the curse of homosexuality."
You have, then, SC gay rights groups asking Obama to reject McClurkin's support, and remove him from the tour. And you have Obama refusing, issuing only a statement where he denounced him, still leaving him on the tour.
And then he has the nerve to sit there some months later and tell a debate moderator he doesn't understand the difference between rejecting and denouncing support (this time regarding Louis Farrakahn.
Obama can give the GLBT community all the lip service he wants, but when it came to action, he failed. Epicly

LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING

Let me tell YOU SOMETHING.
As a gay man who comes from the time of Hillary and Easley and all the older homophobic that would have heard that YES GAY SLUR, you hopefully become one of those 'anyone who BOTHERS to think'.
YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT WORDS MEANS. YOU ARE FROM A TIME OF GAY RIGHTS. IT IS OBVIOUS.
I hate to be offensive but I am very angered that my fellow gays would not ask of this to understand it better, but to immediately let that word return to remind me of how horrible it was to be called a "PANSY".

Did you happen to see the movie "Brokeback Mountain"?
What you may not realize is that when those men were beating a homosexual with a crow bar, Chances Are, given the time zone, 99 out of 100 that THEY WERE CALLING HIM A "PANSY" WHILE THEY WERE BEATING HIM TO DEATH.

Sorry but, no, I am not sorry, I will tell you and it is about time you grew up.
ANYONE WHO HAS CHECKED OUT OBAMA'S HISTORY IN THE ELECTORAL WILL FIND THAT HE HAS ALWAYS SUPPORTED, AND MENTIONED, GAY'S IN HIS VOTING PAST.

THE proof is in the pudding damn you. Look around and check the U.S. Congressional websites and see who has backed your advancement and who has paid you lip service.
I will guarantee you will find that Obams has stayed true to his word since day one in the State of Illinois.

YES, "PANSY" IS A SLUR IN HILLARY AND EASLEY'S TIME AND THE TIME OF THOSE WHO HEARD THAT SPEECH. THEY ARE BUYING THE HOMOPHOBIC VOTE.
BARACK OBAMA HAS BACKED GAY EQUALITY FROM DAY ONE, LONG BEFORE HE "HAD TO" POLITICALLY.
GAY DESERVE EQUAL RIGHTS WAS PART OF HIS KEYNOTE ADDRESS FOR KERRY WHEN OBAMA NEVER HAD TO MENTION GAYS.

All right. I will concede

All right. I will concede that it is a legitimate thing to take issue with. I do, however, not believe for a moment that it was Easley's intention to offend.
But drklilking, don't make me laugh. Time I grew up? Please. Yes, I come from a time of more equality in the gay community, but let's not try and compare personal suffering and oppression, I've seen my share let me tell you and anyone such as yourself who tries to tell me otherwise comes across as ridiculous to me.
Barack Obama has never stuck his neck out for the GLBT community. In the Senate, he only did decent things when it became politically comfortable. I, personally, as a victim of people who try to cure homosexuality, like Donnie McClurkin, don't see how a gay person could not be completely disgusted by Obama on his involvement with him; to the point where any other lip service or comfortable political action he has taken is erased.

Grasping at insensitivity?

Nice attempt at diversion. However, just because Obama hasn't lived up to your expectations doesn't mean Easley didn't offend some people. They have nothing to do with one another!

Easley said it. Some people were offended. Those are the facts. I was offended. Fact. Those aren't "hilarious straws" but my feelings, my experiences, and my history as a child. I was called a pansy. It was one of a bunch of names (along with sissy, Mary, faggot, pussy and countless more) used to insult and attack me because I behaved too effeminately.

So feel free to attack Obama for what you believe is a bad move on his part. Just don't dismiss a legitimate complaint to do it. It's ineffective.

Now you can see why I kept this one going.

It touches someone I love very very much.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

See above reply. My

See above reply.
My mention of Obama wasn't a diversion, but an addition, to try and talk about something that people (gay and straight alike) do not give enough attention to. And something, for me, that matters more as this was a poor choice of words on Easley's part, and I do not believe that it was his intention to use it as a slur. (Why would he?) I don't think it was Barack's intention to offend, either, with McClurkin, but that he did it amorally and only for political advancement.

PANSY'S AND SLURS AND WHERE ARE YOU FROM'S?

Well, first and foremost, I would like to address anyone who does not seem to understand any problem in that use of the term "Pansy".

I understand that many have never heard it used as a slur for homosexuals.
I understand looking up the dictionary definitions and such.

HOWEVER: Please know, and it was used on me many times when Easley and Hillary were younger, is was one of those words that helped me to cry myself to sleep with self-hatred at night.

It was a word of utter hated for homosexuals, and you better believe that both of them know that they are speaking to an older crowed containing the homophobic, yes, even before the idea of gay liberation surfaced.
It was a horrible word and both of them know it. BOTH OF THEM UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE TRUE MEANING TO AN OLDER AMERICA. You may not, but THEY DO.

You may think it means nothing, now anyway. I guarantee you they know, ask some elderly people and you will find they know what it meant. It was NOT a "flower" nor a "wimpy boxer" in their time.

You give them excuses for using the term. I give you REASONS for not RATIONALIZING their behavior.
It was a political vying for the homophobic vote of their generation. They both WELL know what was being said.
I AM THEIR GENERATION AND THEY ARE THOSE WHO WOULD STING MY HEART ALMOST DAILY WITH THAT WORD.

UNDERSTAND THAT I, AND THEY, ARE THE GENERATION BEFORE GAY RIGHTS.

Hillary has shown her love for the gay community, IT IS NOT THERE. When she had the power of first lady, she did nothing. When she needs you, she will hardly mention the word "gay" in a speech, even to a gay audience!
Look around you and look at her history. She is not "for You" unless she "needs" you. You think you "need" her but,look at her history!

I heard Barrack Obama say, "and gays" have the right to equality in this country. He said it in a keynote address AND HE HAD NOTHING TO GAIN, BUT TO LOSE BY SAYING IT.
He mentions gay rights in almost every speech he makes.
He is, right then and there, a total change in this country. Good grief, wake up and smell some hope in your life. Because so long as you back Hillary Clinton, you will always smell what comes from her backside.

"I give you REASONS for not

"I give you REASONS for not RATIONALIZING their behavior."

Who is they? You're faulty first of all for trying to link Hillary Clinton along the comment, which she did not make.

"Hillary has shown her love for the gay community, IT IS NOT THERE. When she had the power of first lady, she did nothing. When she needs you, she will hardly mention the word "gay" in a speech, even to a gay audience!
Look around you and look at her history. She is not "for You" unless she "needs" you. You think you "need" her but,look at her history!"

Okay, these accusations are outright lies, honey. Do you want me to start listing everything she has done? In HIV/AIDS issues, hate crime legislation, helping to defeat the proposed 2004 constitutional amendment that would have banned gay marriage? If you are ignorant to all she has done, I'll help inform you. But I won't stand for false accusation that say she has done nothing.

"I heard Barrack Obama say, "and gays" have the right to equality in this country. He said it in a keynote address AND HE HAD NOTHING TO GAIN, BUT TO LOSE BY SAYING IT.
He mentions gay rights in almost every speech he makes."
Speeches are lip service. Have you been aware that he is ignoring the gay press? In Ohio, he refused to grant the state's largest newspaper an interview, and eventually caved into sending a representative, who talked down to the interviewer and, when pressed with questions, ended the actual interview? And in PA, he out right refused to even talk to any gay paper. But guess who did. She has blond hair and her name rhymes with Tillary Flinton.

"He is, right then and there, a total change in this country. Good grief, wake up and smell some hope in your life. Because so long as you back Hillary Clinton, you will always smell what comes from her backside."
Your condescension doesn't become you. I have hope that things will get better in our country, and to do that the only way that can be achieved is to elect Hillary Clinton. Barack Obama would be another Bush; lacking qualifications and experience, bumbling his way through answering to the press, and generally being pig headed and arrogant about how he wants to do his job. Maybe you see hope in him, but I certainly see it elsewhere. I'm not discounting your view, like you annoyingly are mine.
However, your closing remark is unfortunate. For its immaturity is laughable and negates me ever taking you seriously again.
Have a nice day.