Easley uses gay slur to praise Clinton
Yesterday Mike Easley endorsed Hillary Clinton. No surprise there, since like her, he is a "right of center" Democrat. What did stand out was in the course of his endorsement he decides to praise her while using a gay slur.
...nothing I love more than a strong powerful woman." Easley concluded his remarks saying Clinton -- "makes Rocky Balboa look like a pansy".
Clinton seemed to see nothing amiss with this remark, but then that is also not surprising to me. For the record:
1) Only bigots use words like "pansy", specifically bigots who are frightfully insecure about their own sexuality and have to denigrate others with childish taunts to feel good.
2) "Rocky" is not the metaphor you want to use for the Clinton campaign.
Apollo Creed, a black guy, beat Rocky to a pulp. Rocky lost. Intimating the Rocky was a homosexual does not change that reality. Why is it necessary to point this out to allegedly intelligent adults?
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I haven't even paid any attention to the endorsement
Ugly....but it'll work with the crowd Easley is playing to.
Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.
Agreed
This is what I don't like about the Easley/Hagan wing of the party.
Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.
This is what I don't like
What about the Easley/Arrowood wing of the party? Do you know how many lawyers would want a Court of Appeals seat in this state?
http://www.equalitync.org/news1/20070825
I won't pretend to know Easley's complete record on gay rights in NC, but you seem pretty intent on declaring him a "bigot" bully who shoves gay kids into their lockers and gives them swirlies. That's just not right.
"Bigot" isn't a word that should just be thrown around.
By "Easley/Hagan" I refer
to the Vichy Dem wing of the party who put corporate interests, and patronizing the red neck crowd above genuine progressive efforts. They are all about "bi-partisanship" and "compromise" even when it means selling out people who they supposedly represent. They will "work with" Republicans, just as the Vichy government "worked with" the Germans. And that turned out so well...
As to "pansy", I said the word is used by bigots, I didn't mention working over gay kids, but it wouldn't surprise me. :)
I have little use for a "good ol boy", even less use for a "good ol boy" in a suit (or a skirt).
Hagan and Easley are prepared to put their own personal ambitions ahead of what is good for the state of NC and many of the people in it.
Hagan has made plain that she has no use for bloggers and can do without gay/lesbian support. Easley has made it plain he wants a cabinet post, and if he has to support someone who will NOT carry the state in November, that's just too bad for NC.
Yeah, if McCain and Dole win, Easley and Hagan lose, but they will still have very high paying jobs, excellent health care, and people vying for their services. The rest of us, especially soldiers, are FUCKED.
Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.
How wonderfully nice of you.
Hi,
"Bigot" isn't a word that should just be thrown around.
And, to you, apparently, "Pansy" isn't a word that shouldn't be just thrown around?
You haven't a clue, do you? No offense but it is so true.
You know what? The "N" word is so universally unacceptable. Do you think it should be "just thrown around"?
Easley is just a bit older than I. In fact, he is the age of those who made us kids cry to sleep at night by calling us "Pansy's".
I don't use that "N" word, not because of political correctness. I don't use it because I know how it makes others feel.
I don't know Easly's gay rights past, but I do know that he knows how damning that "Pansy" term is to us kids from 35 years ago.
Yes, I think "bigot" should not be thrown around carelessly. However, I think that when the shoe fits, wear it. When a spade is a spade, it is a card. When a Pansy is a Pansy, it is myself 30 years ago. Easily teenage years, I was just getting there and, Easley's called me that to let me know I was not normal and worthles, I was a pansy, a homosexual, a fruit, and, YES IT IS SO FRIGGING BIGOTED OF HIM ONLY BECAUSE HE DAMN WELL KNOWS IT'S INFERENCE.
Whether you realize it or not.
Loveya,
Duane
Easley is a big Sissy! And so his tagteam partner Hillary!
...nothing I love more than a strong powerful woman." Easley concluded his remarks saying Clinton -- "makes Rocky Balboa look like a pansy".* White boy from North Carolina
Either Easley has been watching too much of " Smackdown" or he is into whips and changes after this quote " nothing I love more than a strong powerful women" Gads! We have finally expose a retarded prevert in office like George Bush........
LOL Crash Easley was impressed w/ Hillary's Bosnia story
Frankly, your post gave me a sickening visual. I may not be able to sleep.
crash boom! Bang!
when did pansy become a gay slur
I've always known it and used it to imply someone is a whimp. Are we looking too much into the words.
Nope...
I've heard "pansy" as a synonym for homosexual my entire life (six years in an all male military school. Just about every dictionary you look at lists it that way, including my O.E.D.
Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.
I bet more people use it to mean whimp or wuss
than as a pejorative meaning homosexual.
Nope
Hi,
Nope, how often do you use that word, just if I might ask.
Pansy is rarely used as anything but a flower these days, but go back one day at a time and you will find its primary use (in the time of Hillary, Easley and me) as a word to describe a perverted little "fruit" (another past term for us ungodly homosexuals).
Loveya,
Duane
A slur by any other name
JJ may be right. Maybe it's not a gay slur, but it's stupid nonetheless. Which is about all I'd expect from lead-foot Mike "the NASCAR Wrecker" Easley. His comments about Clinton give new meaning to the word "lame."
It is a slur
Hi,
JJ is not right. "Pansy" is a greater slur than most homosexuals today can understand. It is from a time before "gay rights". A time when there was NO place of security from the horrible life of being born gay.
It is a major slur FROM THE TIME OF HILLARY, EASLEY, AND ME.
loveya,
Duane
I cannot believe you don't know that's what it means.
Would Merriam-Webster convince you?
Christ.
Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors
You're right
I was just trying to give Easley a tiny benefit of the doubt, which I should have long-since realized he doesn't deserve.
Sorry.
I may have over reacted a tiny bit. I'm just pissed that people try to pass it off as "he didn't really mean that". Well, yes, he did. And if he didn't, he should have known better, the little prig. Endorse who you want for President. That's his prerogative as an American. But to use a slur in your endorsement? Imagine if he had referred to "darkies" or "hebes" or "spics"? That wouldn't have been okay, and the media would have been all over him.
But he can say "pansy", because maybe he meant a flower. Right.
Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors
Utter nonsense
I don't know about you, but when I grew up pansy did not have any conotation towards someone's sexual orientation. Pansy, sissy, whimp, wuss, baby, and even girl were equally used interchangeably to mean the same thing, scaredy-cat, or weakling.
I want to see the etymology of pansy so I can know precisely when it entered into the general vernacular as a homosexual.
Let's stop trying to find words to take offense at.
I'm not trying to find words to take at which to take offense.
It's telling that you didn't know that an accepted slang meaning of the world "pansy" is a derogatory word for a gay male. A friend of mine, a gay male, says that a lot of people called him, gay, fag, pansy, queer, etc., before he ever realized he was. They were so cruel to him that he spent recess hiding so no one could find him.
Thank god he's one of the lucky ones not hiding from anyone now.
Here is your etymology.
Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors
we called people pansies all the time
and in no way did it ever have the same meaning as queer, fag, etc.
If you refused to jump off the railroad bridge into the river you were a pansy. it never ever meant that we were using a disparaging word for homosexual
Your usage notwithstanding
it has still been used that way (by people who actually understood the word they were using)
for a long, long, long time.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke
I'm with JJ on this one
Until today, I had no clue that pansy was a word synonymous with homosexual.
Please, Linda, enlighten me and JJ as to how this is "telling" that we did not know about this meaning. I really love it when people I've never met pass judgment on me!
I'm passing judgment on the way you're using words
which I think is totally fair in a medium made up of words.
I really love it when people confronted with their own ignorance continue to deny when reality is presented to them.
Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors
I didn't use pansy
Yes, I admit to being ignorant about the meaning of pansy. So does JJ and at least a few others on this thread. I don't think that gives you a right to judge me or them about it.
You once again are missing the point. Tell me honestly, do you think Gov. Easley's message was:
She makes Rocky Balboa look like a homosexual?
Or
She makes Rocky Balboa look like a wimp?
Your answer to this question will tell me a lot more about you than my lack of knowledge of the meaning of pansy says about me.
Thanks
Hi,
It really brings tears to my eyes.
Your friend survived words like "pansy", "fruit", "sissy", etc. I have a lot of friends who decided that death was better than being who they were, and being persecuted for it by the words of others.
It is people like you, who have understanding, that make this world a better place for all.
Loveya,
Duane
thanks for coming by, duane
I have friends who decided that death was better than being called names constantly, too. People have no idea how words hurt. "Sticks and stones will break my bones - but words will break my spirit."
Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors
UTTER NONESENSE?
Hi,
Someone else gave you an etymology from a dictionary.
Let me give you mine, it is not from a dictionary.
Pansy: (At the same time as Easley and Clintons growing up)
ME, a boy who liked boys, hated himself for it and didn't know why. A word which made some young boys hide themselves away for many of their years. A word so hurtful to young boys (girls were supposed to be "pansy's") that many of them would commit suicide rather than be "pansy's" which is a "homosexual".
I AM FROM EASLEY AND CLINTON'S GROWING-UP TIME AND I AM A MAJOR RECIPIENT OF THAT WORD.
THESAURUS: The "N" word except this one would cross all lines of race, color, creed, etc.
I hope that helps you. You don't have to take offense at it. I take offense at it only because, I am from the time of Easley and Clinton and I know THEY know exactly what hatred they are referring.
Loveya,
Duane
While I understand and appreciate
your efforts, these people KNOW what they are saying. They are comfortable saying it. If the matter gets any press attention, Easley will issue the standard "non-apology apology".
These people are Dixiecrats and they'll take our money while screwing us over when it really counts.
Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.
and the apology will read
Sorry, JJ, but it has always been used to refer to homosexuals
Just 'cause ya didn't catch on for a while doesn't mean it won't always that-a-way.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke
and the answer will be
1929, Why didn't you know, you little bigot?
Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors
Homosexuality wasn't invented until 1929, right?
Sorry, couldn't resist. I realize a buncha folks will think I'm in earnest.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke
I guess I am a bigot
Because I didn't know one definition of a word that people use differently. I could see it as a slur, but under the right context.
This is not one of those contexts.
No, no, you're not getting
No, no, you're not getting away without owning up fully. Repeat after me:
:)
well damn
you got me there ;)
Easley's blowing the secret dog whistle for Dixie Crats
Its part of the Clinton strategy. The secret dog whistle was blown in PA for whites who have racist feelings.
Eeeew,
you may be right but the words Dixie crats puts my teeth to gritting. Aren't they all dead yet?
Progressive Democrats of North Carolina
Not by a long shot.
Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors
Kosh needs to take a chill pill
I'm sure the governor was trying to be funny.
And, like many things the governor has tried over the years (mental health reform, stifling emails, wrecking a NASCAR car, etc.), it just didn't work out like he had planned.
Sure he was trying to be funny.
And jokes at the expense of any group are a-okay. How about Easley jokes about uptight jesusfreaks next? Would that be okay with you?
Or maybe he'll try to jew down the budget? Is that cool?
Maybe he'll get some inbred rednecks to keep our northern border safe? That cool?
Get my point?
You'll probably tell me to chill, too.
Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors
Why so hateful?
You are assuming everyone is as enlightened as you, or maybe as cynical. Maybe some people actually do not know the real meaning, who are you to judge their intention?
I must admit, I learned something new, because all my life I also thought it was another term for being a wuss or a coward. I have several gay friends at work and I've never heard a discussion about this term. I don't think it's the big deal you're making it out to be.
"Or maybe he'll try to jew down the budget? Is that cool?"
Yeah, that's fine... I'm Jewish, I've heard much worse. Besides, if I hated everyone for their ignorance, I wouldn't have any friends left.
You really seem quick-tempered and very judgmental. Maybe you shouldn't condemn people before knowing all the facts? We have enough hate to go around.
"1929, Why didn't you know, you little bigot?"
"Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi"
"you little bigot?" I don't think your tagline reflects your actual intention. If YOU are the change, then I wish not to see it. I can't see Gandhi responding in this manner...
Shalom!
Oh, just saw your bio entry: "I might be living in the South, but I'm a Jersey girl and always will be. That means I might not always get what I want, but you'll always know how I feel about it."
Well, I'm a Jersey boy, from Paterson... you have to be the FIRST girl from Jersey that I've seen that ever quoted Gandhi !
"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." -- Winston Churchill
~!@#$%^&*()
Hey! *I'm* the one who is uptight and persnickety. Linda's the easy going one.
She hasn't condemned, and the last thing Linda is is hateful. Maybe you're the one being a little too quick to judge, eh?
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing
-Edmund Burke
Thanks, Brunette.
I might not have been hateful, but I did get pretty damn angry over words. Sometimes I just get pissed off. I appreciate you getting my back.
Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors
Well...
A voter.
See, I listen to what they say, analyze the context, and them make a judgment.
"Wuss" short for "wussy", politer version of "pussy", meaning "having female attributes", because being female is obviously, you know, "wrong".
Just because you and your friends have never encountered a word in a particular context, doesn't mean the word doesn't have that context.
See, we just don't make this shit up, we know what we are talking about. Every dictionary lists it as a disparaging term for male homosexuals.
And you are perfectly free to not be offended by a racist stereotype as much as other people are permitted to be offended.
You should get out more. :)
Personally, I have my problems with Gandhi. He was all about the peace, but he was a horrid racist in his day.
Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.
Just a little sexism, how can it hurt?
The term "wuss" is a combination of the words "wimp" and "pussy", neither of which require a whole lot of explanation. Just like pansy, it is (and has been) used to accuse a male of having "girlish" traits, and is considered (by the user) to be one of the strongest insults (just below faggot) that can describe someone's virility. It's actually a double-whammy, because it also denigrates females in the process.
The use of such terms by a 12 year-old boy is intolerable but understandable, considering he's navigating through puberty with the judgment of a three week-old kitten. Mike Easley is pushing sixty. The word "pansy" shouldn't even be in his vocabulary anymore, much less ready to spring up when complementing a Presidential candidate. Either he's still struggling through puberty, or he's got some heretofore unknown "issues" with human sexuality.
Mike? It's been real, and it's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun, so, you know...don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
eta: Kosh beat me to it. I take way too much time preparing my posts. ;/
Guess I shouldn't use the word hysteria
Since its root is in the greek word for uterus.
etymology of pussy
It should also be noted, that the insult pussy has a different etymology than vulgar term for the female genitalia. It derives itself from the term of endearment "pussy."
At the risk of turning BlueNC
into NCBLue, the versions seem to have a commonality in that they are (for the most part) female in nature:
If one of you wise moderators wants to remove this, I won't mind. Just don't call me a wuss. ;(
Some folks need to understand
that when it comes to word, their meanings and derivations, some of us don't play.
We have very detailed reference books, and some of them, are on PAPER.
Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.
Well, I'm a Jersey boy, from
I'm from Wayne. :)
And I keep the Gandhi quote up to remind myself to try to be better. The "little bigot" comment was aimed at Easley. Honestly - he's done enough for me to believe those words are true. I believe him to be a bigot.
Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors
You missed my point
Did I say anywhere in my post that what the Governor said was okay? No.
All I'm saying is, I bet the governor has no clue that the word pansy has come to be associated with a slur against homosexuals (or at least before today, he didn't). I myself was in that same camp until today. I've probably never even used the word, or at least haven't in the last 30 years. But if I heard somebody call another man a pansy, I would have assumed it was akin to calling him a wimp and was not any kind of slap about his perceived sexual orientation. And judging from this thread, many other people would have come to the same conclusion.
It would help your case out tremendously if you could avoid knee-jerk reactions to somebody whenever they post something you don't agree with. Attacking me or anybody else for my views on this issue is completely uncalled for. You could have made all the same points above without having to attack me for it.
I find it VERY hard to believe
He doesn't know teh connotation of "pansy"
Very hard indeed.
Any you know what, I am pretty much through giving politicians the benefit of a doubt. With the money we pay them, and the benefits they collect, I expect better.
Hell, I DEMAND better.
Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.
George Allen didn't know what "macaca" meant
or so he claimed. It still cost him the election.
And I sure as heck had never even heard that word until that flack arose.
The point was less that he used the word than how he dealt with the hurt that arose from it. Allen tried to blow it off, essentially acting like it was the fault of the people who got offended, since obviously that wasn't what he meant.
Now, I think Easley should know that "pansy" has those connotations. I just find it difficult to believe that anyone who has lived in the South, especially of his generation, hasn't heard that at some point. But even giving him the benefit of the doubt, the point is that "pansy" is a pejorative. He may not have known exactly how offensive it could be, but he should know now. And he should apologize. That's all there is to it.
I grew up all my life hearing the word "jipped." I used this word, not knowing that it derived from "gypped," which is a slur based on negative stereotypes of the Romani, or Gypsies. I truly never knew that, and when I said in casual conversation that I had been "jipped" I certainly meant no offense. I lived in Hungary, and had Romani friends. I would never have deliberately used an ethnic slur against their people, but I didn't know it was one. Then a friend of mine explained to me the context and the derivation, and I got it. So I apologized, and I don't use that word any more - except, obviously, as an example of my own education about the power of words.
There are lots of things that don't bother me when applied to me personally. And I don't think we need to police each other constantly or be so careful that we lose the ability to talk to each other. But I do think elected officials have a responsibility to their constituents, and I do think that hate-speech is a category of language that needs to be watched carefully. We don't need to flay Easley alive for this, and we don't need to play the "guilt by association game" with Clinton (no matter how much fun it might be). But it is worth taking the time for the learning opportunity, because hate-speech should never be taken lightly. Words can hurt. If Easley gets a pass, then we send the message that homophobic insults are "no big deal," and that's not something we should be doing, period.
Sorry, I have heard this all too often
He's isn't funny. He's a bigot. The word slipped off his tongue without effort or thought. This is INGRAINED.
Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.
I think a more appropriate title for this post would be...
...The Blogger Who Went Up A Molehill, But Came Down A Mountain.
Cabarruscheapseats.com: Reasoned Discussion of Cabarrus County, NC News & Politics
Funny, Justin
I guess when you're a white breeder like us, it's easy enough to laugh it all off. I wonder though, what the little kid who gets the crap beat out of him in the 4th grade thinks about all this.
Mostly this just goes to show that Mr. Mike has pretty much outlived his usefulness in the governor's office. If Clinton is going to try to paint Obama as hating America because his preacher doesn't pull his punches, then calling out one of her endorsers as a dim-wit should be more than fair game.
precisely.
Every time someone official uses a derogatory slang term like "pansy" (or anything else), it makes it okay for some damn bully on the playground to use it, or some teacher to tell some kid to "stop acting like a pansy and act like a man." What the hell?
He should know better. He should know better, especially since he's a little guy and probably had to take his share of abuse when he was growing up.
Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors
And I can go back to the LtE section
of any NC newspaper and find similar sentiments 30+ years ago about the use of other slurs against blacks, Hispanics, women, etc. People getting upset because Jesse was talking about "coloreds".
Let's rework the remark, using what some are claiming he meant.
"Clinton makes Rocky Balboa look like a little girl".
And what, pray tell, is wrong with little girls?
Oh, right, it is something no self-respecting male wants to be, seeing as how inferior girls are to "men".
So, this woman is tougher than this man, and by contrast makes this man look like a -- woman?
Yeah, that makes it all better now.
Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.
In all fairness
I don't know of a single girl that could have fought Ivan Drago.
pffft.
I would have kicked his ass. :)
Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors
Only 'cause that's as high as you could reach
:D
Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.
Zackedly.
But I would have. Hard. Especially today.
And great goddess help him if Casey Mann got near him. :-D
Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors
Hillary right of center?
HA!
With that I'll agree with you.
She's not right of center.
But she's way right of where she needs to be.
Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors
Huh?
Proposing to pretty much socialize US financial markets is "right of where she needs to be?"
Proposing to pretty much socialize the health care industry (yeah, I know; private insurance will still exist. But her plan redirects financial capital in the economy toward it, and she's planning to institute a number of rediculous regulations. That's central planning. That's socialism) is "right of where she needs to be?"
Having one of the most socially left platforms of a major party Presidential candidate in recent history is "right of where she needs to be?" (Not saying I disagree with her on same-sex marriage, and in fact, I would like marriage licensing to end and marriage contracting to be decentralized; but still, she's by no means socailly right.)
Wanting to maintain the traditional foreign policy of the left- aggressive interventionism (and that IS the traditional foreign policy of the left, dating back to Wilson)- is "right of where she needs to be?"
The only issues I can think of where she is "left of where she needs to be" for what I observe to be the attitude of most Democratic voters are on drugs (although, for some reason, we libertarians seem to be the only ones fighting for legalization these days. And by legalization, I mean EVERYTHING), the death penalty (I believe she's for it, if I'm not mistaken?), and civil liberties issues (Patriot Act, Real ID/National ID Card, etc.).
Personally, I view Hillary as a totalitarian. But no bother: I view Obama and McCain the same way, as well as Edwards, Romney, Giuliani, Huckabee, Biden, Hunter, Kucinich, and Tancredo before them. (Thompson was pushing it, but at least he's heard of something called federalism. Richardson and Dodd were clean.)
There is a difference between "socialize" and "regulate"
US financial markets are in serious need of regulation, as are ALL US corporations. As for "socialized health care", you say that like it is a bad thing. Mediocre health care for everyone, is far, far, FAR better than the current system off outstanding health care for 1%, and shitty health or no health care for everyone else.
Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.
It is effectively socialized risk.
Our financial markets are not in need of regulation. They are in need of cutting out the fundamental source of problems in credit markets such as the formation of asset bubbles, the driving of herd behavior, and moral hazard problems, which is the ability of the Federal Reserve to fix interst rates in the market and manipulate money and credit with complete discretion. (With particular focus on interest fixation, although changes in credit supply obviously affect interst rates.) The vast majority of economists on all sides agree that price fixation by the government never works and causes all kinds of distortions. Why should we expect price fixation in financial markets to work any differently when it clearly doesn't, and the cosequences are much worse than those yielded by inefficiency in other markets?
What Clinton is calling for in her mortgage bailout and regulatory plans (and, to lesser extend, what Obama is calling for in his plans) IS socialized risk. Her plan effectively amounts to bailouts for those who lose their homes regardless of credit history: in other words, if take on a lot of risk or take on loans that you can't afford or don't take steps to make sure you afford, the government will be there to bail you out. This, with her proposed moratorium on foreclosures, is suicide and is going to impose a huge risk for lenders. Regulation will only increase costs. (Sarbanes-Oxley, according to some estimates I've read, has cost the US economy $1 trillion and increased expenditures associated with being public by over 130%. The internal control test required by SoX is a tremendous joke.) If we want to prevent shenanigans from happening, we should have a good litigation system with stronger enforcement of contracts and massive liability established (hell, I'm against limited liability for corporations) to provide disincentives to do so.
I would say that what we have right now in health care IS a socialized system. The federal tax expenditure for employer-provided care (be it employer tax exemption for provision of benefits for tax benefits for consumers for joining employer pools) is in the hundreds of billions of dollars. (The last statistic I saw, it was over $450 billion in 2004. I'm sure it's vastly more than that now.) I personally would blame this alone for most of the problems in our health care system. This all started as most socialistic boondoggles do: as the result of previous socialistic boondoggle that created a huge problem for which another socialistic boondoggle was devised to resolve. I'm talking, of course, about the FDR Administrations price and wage controls of the early 40s, which they discovered was hampering employment. So what was the answer? Provide massive tax benefits for provision of health benefits and insurance. This has led to creation of monster bureaucracy, fractured the consumer-provided insurance market, made the principal-agent problems that naturally arises with third-party provision of health coverage MUCH worse, created this idiotic coupling of employment and access to health insurance. But hey! We got employment to temporarily go up!
Furthermore, Medicare and Medicaid comprise a higher percentage of GDP than most entire single-payer systems in other countries. Combining the tax expenditure for employer-provided care raises that figure tons. The federal government is directly responsible for the creation of those HMOs. We have assinine regulations such as the prevention from buying insurance across state lines (kudos to Biden for calling this out), monopoly power of Med School accredation by the AMA, regulations keeping alternative medicine either out of the market or punishing it relative to pharmaceuticals, idiotic drug patenting laws, the shutting out of Nurse Practitioners, and benefit mandates that have increased expected payouts and wasteful expenditures that are increasing costs.
I would prefer outstanding care for the vast majority of society, into which anyone can enter, to mediocre care for everyone. I think we can get there through a true free market medicine system where health insurance that truly INSURES (i.e., covers for bad outcomes, not expenditures for routine visits and procedures) and where people have the incentives to act in ways to improve their health and minimize risk. I wouldn't mind having some type of program set up to fund, say, vouchers for the uninsured who can't afford REAL insurance with a negative health externalities tax. (For example, a cigarette tax.) In my view, this would be a way of enforcing compensation of damages to others' private property.
Sure makes the notion of the Superdelegate
seem ludicrous even if Easley wasn't being funny.
There's nothing Super about him, why should he get 69,999 more votes than me or you?
Progressive Democrats of North Carolina
Radiogirl notes the pansy play
with her usual grace.
hillaryious - she will ask Easley for advice - lol
Wow, she'll ask Easley for advice - oh boy that should turn out well
Easley Pansy remark hit Wikipedia
Damn, that was fast. You can read it here.
Uh Sylvester Stallone should be pissed
I mean, if you were him, wouldn't that comment offend you?
Only if being gay is somehow bad
The insult is that the term is used of gays disparagingly. It's like how Clinton runs from the term "lesbian" since she accused of being a lesbian. Instead of responding "Thanks for the compliment, but no, I'm not". She reinforces the view that being a "lesbian" is an insult by running from it.
Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.
No I mean that comparing Hillary to Stallone is an insult
thats what I meant.
Hillary is no Rocky nor is she a Stallone.
Where could I get a RED pansy?
I've never seen them that color.
Followed your link A and found this....A Pansy for your Thoughts
No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.
Progressive Discussions
Words . . .
~sigh~
n/t
I'm with JJ...
Dictionary says that "pansy" has two distinct definitions.
One is a disparaging term for homosexual. One just means a weak boy.
But I had honestly never heard it used as anything other than just plain weak. (Directed at both girls and boys.) Maybe I just don't hang out with enough people who have a rich vocabulary of derogatory words for gay...
Easley's comment
For God's sake, Rocky is a fictional character. Don't you think calling the comment a gay slur is over reacting just a bit?
No. I don't.
And frankly, with respect to my friend the Captain, who is a devoted Hillary Clinton supporter, this has nothing to do with presidential politics for me, any more, and nothing to do with Rocky Balboa, for God's sake. It has every thing to do with holding a publicly elected official (Michael Easley) accountable for what he said. He used a word that is an offensive word to many of his constituents. Words matter. They do. I swear to god they do, and this one does.
It seems inoffensive; it seems mild. Those are the ones that are the worst. They insinuate themselves into the language, and it is the child who is different who pays for it. An boy who likes music and dance is called a pansy. A girl who is athletic and muscular is called a tomboy. They can go along with the teasing, they can try to hide who they are, they can fight, or they can hide in the closet.
Adults let words like "pansy" go, because it's not 'fag' or 'homo'. It's not that bad, really. But words matter - and just because you don't want these particular words to matter doesn't make them matter less.
Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors
New to Me, Also
I had never heard the word "pansy" to mean "homosexual". I have been following this thread and did not want to think I was super-sheltered, so I checked with several friends. They had never heard it to mean "gay men", either. Either way you look at it the quote doesn't make sense unless you take his meaning to be "weak".
That is exactly the point, micandacam
There are two interpretations of Easley's remark:
She makes Rocky Balboa look like a homosexual!
Or
She makes Rocky Balboa look like a wimp!
The first one makes no sense and is offensive to a significant segment of our society. I can't believe any politician would utter it, especially in this day and age of people blowing every remark they can out of proportion (yes, Bluenc has entered into this realm).
The second one makes all the sense in the world for the point he was trying to make, considering that he preceded the remark with something along the lines of, I like strong women! Wimp is the opposite of strong, ergo, "Hillary Clinton is so strong, she makes Rocky Balboa look weak."
I doubt see how anybody can interpret Easley's remark in any other way.
Mmm, no, I've addressed this
Both contexts are derogatory.
The second context is not "She makes Rocky look weak", the second context is "She more manly than a man."
Yeah, that's not insulting.
Liberalism as a badge of honor!
No apologies, no excuses.
They are both derogatory
ABOUT ROCKY BALBOA!!
He's not even a real person!
But again, like your compadre Linda, you miss the point.
One is interpreted as a derogatory slam against homosexuals.
The other is not.
That is the whole crux of this matter. So I will ask you just like I have asked Linda, which do you think he meant?
Okay Teepack
I know he didn't MEAN it to be a gay slur. But what he meant really isn't always the point. He didn't mean to decimate the mental health system in North Carolina, but the effect is there for all to see. He didn't mean to break the law by telling his staff to destroy emails, but the erosion of trust in government is there for all to see. He didn't mean to ridicule gays, but I have three gay friends who found his "meaninglessness" offensive and out of line.
You win. He didn't mean anything. He was just being a dumb ass.
It was stupid
Then again, what do you expect from Governor Bubba?
The governor is not stupid
Easley is a lot of things, but he is far from stupid.
Not sure why you call him Bubba. He's the least "Bubba" governor we've hard in recent memory. (Well, wait, Jim Martin wasn't very Bubba, either.)
In any event, I actually expected a lot from him at one time, but have been disabused of illusions about Easley's integrity these last two years.
I hate it when I have to give up admiring someone, because having a sense of admiration for a person is uplifting. It SHORE DOES HURT though when you realize what a naive dingaling you've been. But again, that has nothing to do with his intelligence, which I'm convinced is pretty high.
I'm wondering if he thinks Hillary can win, though. Maybe it doesn't matter, since it costs him nothing to endorse her and he's still likely to reap some form of thanks for it. He might be figuring she's not going to fade into the background even if she loses this primary, so there may be some future prospects for him for which Clinton assistance is deemed useful.
It's harder to figure why Hillary thinks that his endorsement is going to help. I guess she figures it can't hurt at this point.
It's irritating to know that there's some danged definitive answer to this question that we'd all be privvy to if we were at the right megabucks fundraiser, clinking expensive crystalware with smoothly groomed fat cats.
If you look all big-eyed at 'em, they love to show off their gossip. (Important advice: never wear birkenstocks to these events -- it tips 'em off)