Gotta love trolls
I love it when trolls come by and display their intellect for all to see. This one - a lunatic named McFly - is definitely worth showcasing.
Hah. I wish my views were so clearly defined that I had to copy and paste them off a website. How appropriate!
"Limitations on the power of government, wealth and religion"? I defy you to show me a 'liberal' who really wants to limit the power of government except as it relates to national security. Limit the power of wealth? Good luck with that. The Trilateral Commission and the Bilderburgers are firmly entrenched. You can dance around chanting, 'Hey, hey, ho, ho, rich white folks have got to go' until you cough up your larynx, but you'll never change the makeup of the global ruling elite. Limit the power of religion? You mean Christianity, right? Because 'liberlz' would rather hide in their closets than stand up to radical islam. Christianity is the only religion whose power needs to be limited. After all, anyone (any Christian that is) who believes in a moral absolute is really just trying to impose their views on you and erode your right to live by any set of standards you choose. Jihadists who plant bombs in restaurants, however, are freedom fighters trying to save us all from zionist oppression.
Wake up and smell what you're shoveling. What concerns are the democrats addressing? When was the last time the democrats tried to SOLVE a problem? Conservatives talk about privatizing social security and the donkeys start belching out scare tactics about taking checks away from little old ladies. We monitor international phone calls trying to sniff out those plotting terrorist activities and suddenly we're living in a dictatorship. (Have you ever even made an international phone call?) A conservative talks about limiting federal spending and Billary starts wailing about THE CHILDREN!!!
Face it: liberals stand for nothing. Their party stands for nothing. They have no party platform. They don't lead, they simply react to the issues of the day with the same tired rhetoric about the blame resting with those selfish, out of touch neocons who are so evil they actually want to feed their families and teach their children morality. Tell you what, Libby. I'd rather hunt with Dick Chaney than ride with Teddy Kennedy. How ironic that TK has come to symbolize the donkeys. That's perfect. He's certainly the man I want representing me and my beliefs. I believe if I'm ever driving drunk with a girl in my car and I crash off of a bridge, I'll just leave the girl to drown while I go talk to my lawyer about how I was never there in the first place. Mary Jo Kepechne who?!?! Never even heard of her!
Just keep chanting libz. When one of you figures out what you're after, let the rest of your tribe know so they can come out of their caves too.
More Kool-Aid please?
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And the Pope thugs are the real tin foiled nazis on the net!
Just another Pope internet thug with a criminal record trying
to play the disinformation game with the old O'Reilly Tin foiled
trick.... He is a local dude who is pissing in his pants that
he cannot stop
the info on this site.
Pope internet thug?
What the h3ll is a 'pope internet thug? Clever jargon, whatever it means. What is a 'tin foiled trick? I guess I'm just out of touch with these hip terms you enlightened types rely on to communicate. By the way, just so you know how to belittle me appropriately, I'm a Protestant. The Pope is just an old guy in a funny hat living in a really nice Italian villa as far as I'm concerned.
Honestly, I didn't come here to make enemies. I'm an American. So are you. I would welcome a dialogue with ANY of my countrymen (no offense ladies!) in the hope that we could better understand what's important to one another. Unless I'm mistaken, that's the foundation of politics.
Or, just go ahead and flame me if it makes you feel better. I'm good with that too.
Your party has done a good job.
Making it seem like we don't stand for anything. That is because if you understood what we wanted, you would realize it is what you want.
Safer America
Stronger Economy
Personal, Corporate, and Governmental Responsibility
Better Future
What the current Republican leadership wants is:
Corporate Profits
Corporate Profits
Corporate Profits
Corporate Profits
Every single decision they make is based on that ideal.
You are known by the company you keep, if you support Republicans, then you support corporate profits over child survival, pro-life America, body-armor for soldiers, Veteran's benefits, 9/11 Memorials, freedom of speech, freedom to assemble, freedom of religion, and the list just goes on and on.
Not my party!
I'm not much on defending the GOP. They aren't doing a job worth defending. But, let's take a quick look at what you say you want.
A stronger America. Not many liberals would say they want a stronger America unless they were campaigning for office. Rallying against going to war with murdering zealots who would see our children's corpses dragged through the streets goes a long way toward making our country stronger, dontcha think? Trading our missile guidance systems to China for campaign funds does too.
A stronger economy. Let's see. The DJIA is at it's all time high. Let's say that again. ALL TIME HIGH (Sounds like a liberal mantra). Home ownership is at record levels. Unemployment is almost nonexistent. Now I know you'll try to marginalize those factors with some witty comment, but these are key indicators of economic strength. If Jim Carrey, or whatever clown you tried to elect, were in office with the economy we have now, you'd be measuring his mug for Mr. Rushmore. The biggest economic problem we face right now is our non-existent energy policy. If there was a politician in D.C. with the stones to stand up the treehugger lobbyists, we could produce enough oil domestically to last until we develop the technology to create a clean, safe, long term energy solution. I guess that's what we all want, even though NO ONE wants to do anything about it.
Responsibility - Personal, Corporate and Governmental. What a quaint notion. A liberal calling out for personal responsibility. You don't really want me to address that, do you? Do we need to discuss the definition of 'is'?
Corporate responsibility is a real hot button issue for liberals now, but what about 16 years ago during the Savings and Loan scandal? Ever heard of the Keating five? Yeah, I'll bet you have. Their defense was 'we didn't do anything everyone else doesn't do.' WOW. THAT's taking responsibility. How about that infamous missile strike against an aspirin factory the day the Monica Lewinski report was to be released? Very responsible. Were you calling on Billary to take responsibility then? Guess not.
Governmental responsibility is obviously a mythical creature that no one has ever actually proven exists. Nixon couldn't find it. Neither could Kennedy (although he looked in some VERY unusual places!) Clinton certainly couldn't. I'm pretty sure we haven't elected an official since Dwight Eisenhower who knows anything about the government's responsibility to its citizens. BUT the fault for that lies with you and I, who allow ourselves to be divided by issues rather than holding our 'leaders' to the standards we hold each other to. That brings me to...
Better future? Libby, if you're holding your breath waiting for Uncle Sam to provide a better future for you, no wonder you're blue. Your future is in your hands. The government doesn't set up retirement plans. It doesn't earn a living for you. It wasn't created to make sure you can be happy sitting on your couch watching HGTV. Self determination is an American's birthright. Why don't you use it better your existence instead of voting for the bozo who tells you he can make your world a better place so you don't have to?
And as for your little corporate profits graphic (nice work there), it is that unrelenting pursuit of the almighty dollar that has forged the single most prosperous nation the world has ever known. The pursuit of corporate profits pays your income. Corruption exists in every one of man's pursuits. I don't hear you calling for 'corporate responsibility’ from the media, the film industry or the music industry. Can you say PAOLA? But according to you, only conservatives are greedy. Libz are compassionate, benevolent monks whose wisdom could solve the world's problems if the GOP wasn't out to make a buck.
You've got it all figured out! Can I have a hit of what you're smoking?
I have one question for you
Have you learned how to speak Chinese yet?
This most properous nation in the world is owned by China. Hu was just visiting to check out his collateral.
Try again, Connie
Ni hao
Now you're talking Southern Dem. See, we do have some common ground. I read that the Chinese are buying $1,000,000,000 in T-Bills everyday. THAT'S a problem I wish more people were talking about. Clinton may have started this mess (I don't know that, I'm speculating), but W. has certainly done nothing but make it worse by riding his one trick pony (Iraq/terror) with his eyes closed. I can't talk about it with anyone without their eyes glazing over. I guess important issues relating to foreign/domestic policy aren't as much fun to discuss as American Idol. That's America's real problem.
Actually, Reagan started this mess, Clinton Fixed it.
and now GWB has screwed the pooch big time. If, what you're talking about is national debt.

Note:
Reagan policies would first show up in about 1982, Clinton in 1994, Bush in 2002.
BTW, your share of the national debt is $27,999.08
I'ma gonna pick one of
I'ma gonna pick one of your topics here; maybe someone else will take on some of the others.
I don't think the idea of responsibility is odd or old-fashioned. There are more and less responsible corporations; there are more and less responsible people; there are more and less responsible governments. Each of these sets of actors should be responsible for its own conduct, and the responsibilities of each interweave in fairly complicated ways.
Take fast food as an example. Someone who eats at McDonalds all the time shouldn't sue when they get fat; they're responsible for their actions. The fast-food corporations' responsibility is to make money for shareholders.
If all we had in the world were those two groups—fast food customers and large fast food chains—you'd have responsibility gaps. For example, who would provide nutritional content information? The restaurant chains wouldn't—why would they? And Joe Blow has a job and a family to worry about; he's supposed to do calorie and vitamin-content analysis on a big mac? In his basement lab? Wages would be another issue. If the restaurants could find people to work for $2.50 an hour they would hire those people and pay them $2.50 an hour, at least for some jobs. And they would be right to do so (remember the shareholders?). Nevermind that earning that kind of dough would put a serious cramp on the employee's ability to meet her own personal responsibilities, and that their labor is worth so much more. There are other gaps as well, of course—healthy food prep environment, interactions with suppliers foreign and domestic, etc.
The government's job is to fill the gaps that nobody else is going to. Another way to look at it (and a way that should be accurate in a democracy) is that the government is us collectively doing the things that can't be done by small subsets of society. We require a minimum wage; we require that food prep areas meet certain standards; we require that nutrition information be provided, and so on.
What we see that is so troublesome is the apparatus of government abdicating the responsibilities that it has been entrusted with to corporate actors. Power plants are now freer than they were in 2000 to decide what's best for the environment in which they operate. Up to the point where customers get angry enough about pollution to stop using their ovens, do you think shareholders care about plant emissions? This is what we're talking about when we say more responsibility. It is up to the government to stand in the place of our collective interests and fill the responsibility gaps. This may mean requiring more of the businesses who want the privilege of doing business in NC (or the US); it may also mean defending corporations from irresponsible individuals.
The Republican controlled Congress is generally failing us in this regard, though there have been some examples of good work—like most of the Sarbanes Oxley Act. The Democrat controlled NC government has offered us some victories—like regulation of smokestack emissions in general—and some failures—like the lame proposed regulation of mercury emissions. In general, though, conservatives have mistaken the fact that market forces eliminate or reduce the need for legislation in some areas as proof that the market can magically handle just about everything. As progressives, we recognize that it takes more than personal and corporate responsibility to make for a decent society.
And as for the definition of "is," I don't believe Bill has ever commented on this site; I don't think you'll even be able to find a single person here advocating Bill as a paragon of progressive virtue. Throughout your comments so far, you have displayed an inability to separate what is being said by the people who will read your comments from some standard right-wing talking points about evil liberals. Try to show that you're listening, and I'll bet people here will spend a bit more time trying to listen to you.
You are entirely too civil.
Which is the thing we most adore about you. (Royal "we." After watching Elizabeth I on HBO last night, we find that affectation rather endearing.)
Responsibility gaps
Fair enough. Point taken. If you fine folks are going to allow me to engage in honest discourse with you then I need to lose my tendency to cast aspersions at my progressive countrymen. Won't happen again. I guess we simply disagree about the role of government. I know your example was only that, but John Q. Public shouldn't need Uncle Sam to tell him that the grease dripping off that burger will make him fat. See my point? I just don't believe that the Federal government should spend trillions of taxpayers' dollars playing guardian angel to people who won't care for themselves. That is not a government's role. Here's my example. Look at Mexico. Here's a country much older than our own, a nation with bountiful natural resources (oil, gold, silver among them), a thriving tourist trade, and access to the world's two largest oceans. So why is it a third world country content to watch millions of its citizens flee the country in search of prosperity they can't find at home? Does the fault lie with the government or the citizens? Government's responsibility is to build roads and bridges, and to provide for the national defense. Beyond that, any task you place in their care only to have them fail to accomplish (or simply ignore) is a failure on your part. Public education? Social Security? Federally mandated healthcare? Those are socialist mechanisms. Power to the people my friends, not to the electorate. We have given ourselves over to the ruling elite and it is foolish of us to think that they are at all concerned with our well being. Responsibility lies with the citizenry. We are the stewards of our government, not the other way around.
Government exists to care for those things
that private enterprises can't or won't.
Such as:
National Forests (we know companies won't care for them)
National Highways (ditto)
National Healthcare.
Why should our health be less important than our forests or our highways? Yet, even though we know that corporations will rape and pillage our forests and highways if we don't have government intervention - we still allow them to run amok with our healthcare.
But that's exactly what I said!
That was part of my point; John Q. doesn't need US telling him that grease makes him fat. What he does need is government telling McDonalds to provide information on just how much fat (protien, vitamin C, etc.) is in a happy meal. I wasn't advocating guardian-angelism. I was promoting gap-filling, doing the things that John Q. can't do for himself. I don't think we disagree here.
As for public education and social security, Americans are among the best educated folks in the world; senior poverty rates in America are lower than just about everywhere else. These are programs that work. What we've seen in past decades is conservatives trying to tear them down because they aren't making anyone rich. I won't say that public education and social security don't have problems, but they fill important social needs that would go unaddressed in a purely market-driven world.
I don't really know anything at all about Mexico. Cabo is nice.
Stronger America
The results of Republican control:
Afghanistan:
Iraq...you don't really need me to spell out Iraq do you?
Terror
Port Security
Port security is a sensitive area. Earlier this year, the Bush administration was forced to scrap plans to allow a Dubai-based company to assume oversight at major U.S. harbors after critics in both major political parties voiced strong opposition.
"The openness of our ports ."…."…. is one of the tremendous marks of success in this global economy, but it also provides an opportunity for terror," said Rep. Dan Lungren, R-Calif., who is sponsoring port security legislation with Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif. "We ought to limit (access) to people who are here legally. We ought to limit it to people who would not jeopardize that security."
Body Armor
Not to mention, North Korea getting nukes under their watch.
Millions dying in the Sudan.
Relations with Russia going to hell in a handbasket.
It's too depressing to list all the SNAFUs that your party has made while "Keeping America Safe".
Oh, and then there is this guy, the butcher of 9/11.
Honestly, I didn't come here to make enemies.
Watch it, McFly, you're gonna start believing your own happy horseshit.
A
Note to all: This is what happens when we feed the trolls. I'm sorry I started, but it won't happen again.
Are you a betting man?
The closer we get to November the more they'll come out of the woodwork...or their caves :) They might not be well-fed here, but I'm betting they won't starve.
I think anonymous
Is referring to Art Pope, not the dude in Italy. Whatever; I'm staying out of that.
I appreciate that you've backed off to "welcom[ing] a dialogue with ANY of my countrymen"; dialogue is good. But that's not how you came off in your original comment. We've only been around since October, but my general impression is that people tend to receive respect here roughly equivalent to the respect that they show.
I'm glad to see that you're still here.
Ahhh assuming the submissive
"go ahead and flame me"...good one. Go back and read what you wrote. That is NOT an invitation to open dialogue.
SouthernDem
"Go back and read what you wrote."
I couldn't have said it better myself.
hehe...I had been tempted to type something
insulting. I've seen the attack then act like a victim ruse before - Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin do it all the time.
I couldn't get through it all
But did he just say what liberals stand for then say that we don't stand for anything?
Does he understand that the largest govt. growth has happened under Bush and the Republicans?
Individual liberties, fair education, civil rights, labor protections, political transparency, privacy, health care...
Seems like a pretty long list of things I, a good liberal, believe in. Is the troll saying I don't believe in them... Gee, maybe he's right. Maybe I only think I believe in them. I'm going to go join the party that attacks states rights, spies on its citizens, refuses to question the power of the executive after trying to impeach the last executive over a blowjob, subsidizes the wealthiest industries in the history of the world, tramples on workers, etc.
You convinced me, trollboy, I'm a reformed neo-conservative now!
Can't..stop..lauging
trollboy...bwahahahaha...I love good snark, and Screwy you rank right up there at the top.
I have to take the girls to dance
Can I just say you guys are brilliant...and I just want to hang around and be your groupie!