Poll reflects success of NC GOP misinformation campaign

Pulling the wool over the public's eyes:

One reason for sustained support: fully 40 percent of all voters (48% of Republicans) agree that “cases of people voting in the name of someone else are commonplace,” despite the lack of hard evidence.

Not only has this misunderstanding been artificially enhanced by the propagandists on the right, it actually defies logic and common sense. Aside from the occasional unbalanced person, why would anybody risk being arrested (or at least hassled) just to throw one vote in the mix of thousands? It makes absolutely no sense on a cost-benefit scale, which means (wait for it) it would only happen on extremely rare occasions. Like, even more rare than getting struck by lightning. The people polled should understand that, just as they should also understand there must be another reason for Republicans to pursue it.

Comments

Just a quibble.

Misinformation implies a mistake when we both know it was no mistake, it was deliberate disinformation. Gin up a fake emergency so you can "fix" it. Sort of like the Help (steal) America Vote Act that was a billion dollar boondoggle to create an unaccountable and easily hackable electronic voting system. A current example would be NC schools and Medicaid, though there are probably more that we don't even know about yet. What they all have in common is public money going into private pockets.

No harm

No harm in having people stand up and identify themselves for such an important thing.

What is the big deal about it?

The big deal is

some people can't stand up. If you are old and don't drive, if you are young and lost your driver's license, if you are sick or poor, likely you won't get to the place that hands out the photo IDs.

The big deal is there is no problem with fraud so why go making problems for so many citizens who have fought for and won the right to vote already? It's going to cost millions of dollars for the state as well and probably be overturned in court anyhow.

Progressives are the true conservatives.

The big deal is the cost

Voter ID isn't free, not by a long shot. Some estimates peg it at more than $100 million just to get it up and running. Republicans have yet to come up with a price tag.

I don't know about you, but even if it's only $50 million, that seems like a pretty big deal to me.

____________________________________

“Don't tell me what you value, show me your budget, and I'll tell you what you value.”
― Joe Biden

Mark Binker said...

Voter ID to cost state about $3.5M

http://www.wral.com/voter-id-advances-through-second-committee/12355343/

And I don't know how much more it will take to fight it in court.

Progressives are the true conservatives.

Binker should be ashamed

Issuing free identification cards to voters who don't have other forms for photo ID would cost less than $1 million over the next year, according to a fiscal analysis by the the legislature.

BY THE FREAKING LEGISLATURE? That's like asking a drunk to report how much he spends on booze each week.

Why Binker didn't look to other states who have grossly underestimated the costs of their voter suppression programs is beyond me. Minnesota has an excellent paper trail showing the original estimates were wrong by a factor of 50!

If the legislature spends as little as they're planning, you can bet your ass that thousands of legitimate voters will be denied their fundamental rights.

____________________________________

“Don't tell me what you value, show me your budget, and I'll tell you what you value.”
― Joe Biden

No cost voter ID

Why does it have to be government ID?

We already know the incidence of someone showing up at the polls and claiming to be someone else is pretty much nonexistent.

Still, everyone has something with their name on it. Family bible, credit card, power bill, 3rd grade report card, etc. Why not set the ID standard lower? Anything, including a government-issued ID can be faked, but simply requiring ANY "proof" will pretty much eliminate the already virtually-nonexistent "problem" and "restore confidence in the process."

I find the requirement of a government-issued ID to be overkill even if there were a real problem with imposters at the polls in the first place.

Good points.

good points...

But if your are old and don't drive somewhere someplace you have to have something that identifies you as you for your benefits you are getting Social security etc...Why not just go an an ID? I don't care what it is just that we can be sure that the ID shows it is really you. College ID is fine, etc... Anything so that a person cannot vote more than once in more than one place etc... problem or not it makes sense.

I don't see any cost in it. All the infrastructure to make and process IDs is already there already. as is poll workers who will verfiy it a voting time. There are State non-drivers licenses so what the big deal. To pay for it...how about cutting Welfare benefits to pay for it....Then those on the dole will move to another state for better benefits or go find a job.

I kid.... I kid......LOL. But I don't see a problem with cost. There is PLENTY of money laying around in the State gov to cover it. Maybe a lower form of stationary?

We'll see what happens.

Aside from the fact that

it is unconstitutional to impose any cost or property ownership requirement on voting, there's no problem at all.

Then again, there's no evidence that the NCGOP cares one whit about the constitution ... except when it bolsters whatever they've already decided they want to do.

____________________________________

“Don't tell me what you value, show me your budget, and I'll tell you what you value.”
― Joe Biden

True

True enough, and the same can be said for Democrats as well.

I think what will happen is there will be a free ID option offered, then there really is no excuse. I suppose they will verify that you are who you say you are and if your not a felon, Illegal alien, or simply mistaken as to where you are supposed to vote (as in a college student etc..)

Free?

You mean the government will pay for it?

And how will they get it to you? What if you don't drive or live in a nursing home? Those folks have a hard enough time getting to polls in the first place. Now you want to make them go to the DMV or some other government office to prove they are a legal citizen?

There's no not enough lipstick in the universe to dress up this pig.

____________________________________

“Don't tell me what you value, show me your budget, and I'll tell you what you value.”
― Joe Biden

Let's get back to basics here

Fine, Republicans, you want voter ID. Then I'm sure any court would agree, to be fair and to eliminate any "poll tax" that makes the scheme illegal, you'll have to set aside funding not only for the voter id itself, but also:

-voter education on the types of documents required
-case workers to step voters through the process of getting the required documentation
-public assistance, including staffing time, to pull and reproduce that documentation
-funding for transporting those who don't drive or are confined to get the id.

It's not just getting the physical id itself that's the main problem. Voters probably had to go and get materials to prove who to get a social security number. That may have been years ago. If they didn't, then that requires getting certified copies of birth records and other documentation.

I would suggest that the NC Democratic Party or progressive groups actually find some voters affected by this law and run a cost and time estimate on what it would cost - per voter - to do what they're asking and numbers on how many voters this adds up to.

Don't just complain about it - come up with numbers you can shove back in their face and grill them on where the money's coming from.

We're really debating policy here when the real issue is what's driving these legal changes, who is funding the misinformation campaigns and the nature of NC Integrity as an organization (or, for profit corporation).

In the end, questionable votes impact a very small fraction of votes in any election and only create problems in rare cases of close outcomes. What's driving these changes is an effort to convince the voting public by Republicans that the Democrats have some grand conspiracy at play to register illegal immigrants as voters and to try and drive as many low income voters away from the polls as possible.

So, yeah, go ahead with your little bigoted plan here, Republicans. Just remember that you might get stuck with a huge bill in a couple of years when a court orders you to pay for it. And you'll waste a few million trying to defend it in court.

In the meantime, as the law makes its way through the courts, you'll have liberals and progressives setting up very public foundations, charity drives, and Kickstarter-style campaigns to pay for voter IDs. And the Dems will be more than happy to put a life-long down on their luck Republican up before the cameras to thank them for their new voter ID card that some charitable donors paid for.

Basics: They're lying

DAG McCrory and his cronies are throwing around numbers like $2 or $3 million in year one. That's what they claimed in other states, too, including in Minnesota. As it turns out, however, the real cost would be just shy of $100 million over three years.

This is another example of faith-based legislating. They throw out a scheme that they know will be completely unworkable, thereby creating chaos.

The minute McCrory signs voter ID, someone should be filing a lawsuit to stop it.

To anyone who is involved with an organization who has the chops to mount that legal challenge, let me know and I will help you with fundraising.

____________________________________

“Don't tell me what you value, show me your budget, and I'll tell you what you value.”
― Joe Biden

lol... really ID is so common

lol... really ID is so common these days it impossible to lead a life without one. I doubt highly that this will be a barrier to anyone. Its basically the responsibility the citizen to have his affairs in order. Not the government's to assure that they do, or even help them do so. It a nice thing to do but they are certainly not obligated in anyway.

Believe I wish they were that way no one can get dinged for G.S 10 subsection 3 section 2 paragraph 12......because the state never told them about it! ignorance of the law and all that...

We'll see. I guess.

I wonder if this will chase people out of NC to live somewhere else whee thy don't have to have ID?

Some thing like 7% of US citizens do NOT have a valid

form of ID. Here's a link for you that reports 13 million Americans. That would translate into hundreds of thousands of North Carolinians. Another poll that I heard about today (but could not find a link to) reported somewhere between 300k and 600k people in NC do not have proper ID.

But according to you those people don't count as they are leading "impossible" lives and do not " have [their] affairs in order.".

While at gun shows and online a completely anonymous nutjob can buy an AR-15 with as many 30 round clips as he can carry. It is quite obvious that R's consider the vote more dangerous than psychos with assault weapons.

LOL.

You have obviously never been to a gun show or purchased a weapon. For if you had you would know that things don't work like that.

Now to the ID. Latest I've heard it will cost 3.5 million to implement. And the integrity of our elections is worth 10,000 times that easily. Unless people are concerned that fraud is made more difficult and making fraud harder is bad I see no issues here. If a person wants to vote and its important to them they will do what is needed. I suspect it will pass the legislature and then be a non issue.

No....

...It's obvious YOU have never been to a gun show. Individuals who are not dealers are allowed to sell guns inside the shows and usually there's a fair amount of trading going on in the parking lot. None of which requires an ID other than the color of cash.

Been there and done it.

so it is worth millions of dollars to prevent

A possible 15 to 20 potential bad votes via a method that could prevent hundreds of thousands of people from voting. You have a really strange concept of integrity.

yeah

Free as in you go to the DMV (or wherever you get a state ID) prove you are who you say you are and they give you a state ID, not a drivers license but a state ID.

I heard it may be in the works (on the radio I've no proof other than that) It removes all of the money arguments etc...all you have to do is get there. Which anyone can do with little effort.

anyway that's something I heard.

Removes all the money arguments?

You think the DMV runs on magic beans?

Bluster all you want, the REAL COST of this scheme will be more than $100 million dollars over the next two election cycles ... and that's not accounting for the legal costs of having this legislation challenged in court.

____________________________________

“Don't tell me what you value, show me your budget, and I'll tell you what you value.”
― Joe Biden

Doesn't someone that is

Doesn't someone that is living off the grid have the same right to vote as anyone else? If they, years ago registered to vote, still lives in the same district (maybe camped in the woods or sleeping in someone's garage, hasn't had a DL, passport, or any other id in years) how can they be denied their constitutional right. They show up at the polls and someone tells them they can't vote because they didn't go to the DMV? Just thinking out loud.

I'm a moderate Democrat.

Exactly. Also:

How can people so steeped in anti-government paranoia then turn around and praise a government-issued identification card?

I'll tell you how. It's because they're allowing themselves to be led around by the nose like cattle by corporate propagandists, so they don't even realize they're wrapped up in contradictions.

15-20 years ago I remember my

15-20 years ago I remember my ultra-conservative friends expressing great indignation and fear concerning government issued identification. My how things change.

I'm a moderate Democrat.