President Bush Denies Hope to North Carolinians

1---We have to get out of Iraq
2---We have to stop climate change/global warming
3---We have to fix our FUBAR healthcare system
4---We have to put every tool and every available dollar in the hands of scientists chasing cures to deadly and debilitating illnesses

As a person living with a life-threatening illness (finally back in remission after battling like a motherfucker for over two years), I know first-hand how FUBAR our healthcare system is needed and how stem-cell research must be advanced to save and improve lives. And I find it so incredibly offensive that Bush has continued to hold back on this research, when he KNOWS that as soon as he's out of office the 70% of us who do believe in this research will see it through.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKK! I don't know what it's like to lose a kid in Iraq like Cindy Sheehan, but with this issue I can sort of feel what she's feeling after losing Casey, as this hits really close to home for me. This isn't some political football shit like he's making it out to be with his obvious pander to the Dobsons of the world. Just like Iraq, people are dying and suffering directly because of this sick moron.

War is over if you want it.

are in Gitmo.

“Once again the President has made it clear that the American people take a back seat to partisan politics,”

Hillary said something just like that yesterday- must be a talking point.

My problem is with labeling this issue as "partisan politics." First, let me say that I think moral objection to stem cell research on planned-for-destruction embryos is completely ridiculous. That said, I can understand (empathize) how if one finds ANY abortion to be murder they could theoretically logically take "life" back to fertilization- even outside the womb.

While I wholeheartedly disgree with the moral objections to federal funding of this research, I think it is wrong to frame the debate as "partisan politics." If one's basic moral beliefs are to all be "partisan politics," then just about everything upon which there is not universal agreement is "partisan politics."

Of course, if much of it is just pandering, you must look down upon Bush and others, but even then there has to be some significant group of people being pandered too. Are they playing "partisan politics" or are they just letting their beliefs and the strength of those beliefs be known to political leaders?

I think that you're right - there are people who are believe to the core of their being that any and all abortion is murder, and that life begins at conception. I think that GWB might actually be one of those people - but I'm not sure. But your point is well taken - if it is pandering, there must be people to be pandered to. (To whom to be pandered? Argh! Grammar!)

I think I'm coming to the conclusion that many of these issues should not be partisan. This is about health and life, no matter where you stand on it. And that puts me in a dilemma I haven't had in a long time.

even in the face of the facts...the these cells are going to be thrown away, washed down the pipes, composted with the potato peelings...he prefers to make some kind of political points with it.

It's pure stubborn, selfish arrogance.

Morality my Aunt Fanny.

oooh, it's so wrong to kill someone who isn't born yet ...

but it's perfectly okay to blow grown ups to smithereeens.

That's BS.

It doesn't, to me. But they're not my beliefs - I just see how someone who had those beliefs would feel strongly about this issue, and would not be able to come around to the point of view that I hold, which is - if the cells are going to be discarded anyhow - use them to find out how we can help people get healthy.

To me, this issue, like many of them, is beyond partisan politics, and well, shame on anyone on either side who uses them that way. We are talking about people's lives - whether it's the war, or whether it's stem cell research, they shouldn't be political footballs.

That doesn't mean I don't believe in political parties - obviously I do. Fine lines of distinction and hairsplitting are free today.

Two split hairs and a side of fine lines...

I don't really call it 'partisan politics' as much as asinine stupidity. I've got plenty of republican friends and they think the way I do. Dead is dead and grown alive humans have more rights than a cluster of cells that may or may not make it to personhood.

Letting those (-R)s frame the debate has taken the whole country off the rails.

I agree with you on the issue, that's for sure. There are lots of people out there who think the way we do on this issue, and I heard on NPR this evening that the Senate is going to go back at this one right away, either by trying to override the veto, or by changing language in the HHS appropriations bill (that I think would be brought up in Sept.). The language change would make any embryonic stem cell lines created up until June 15, 2007 "fair game" for federal funding of research.

The point, though, is that I can understand how difficult this whole issue is for someone who believes that microscopic lump of tissue is a human being. If I believed that, I would be vehemently opposed to this, and I would make sure my legislators knew how I felt. Having been a liberal Democrat for all of my adult life, I can empathize with those who find themselves in the minority on an issue. :)

I don't think it should be partisan, because this research could possibly save thousands of lives, and make thousands of more lives much more comfortable and livable. That should be above R and D partisanship. I don't like the "Democrats want to kill babies" frame anymore than I like the "George Bush wants you to suffer", I don't think that either one is true, and I think that as adults we should be above it. That's all.

Ye gods this sounds like I'm defending Bush. Keeeeyrist, time for a break.