Starting the New OLF fight.

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Submitted by parmea on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 8:22pm.

NO OLF
OLF

The Navy has removed the old EIS page and has come up with a new OLF EIS page.

The new page is now . It has nothing of any substance on it EXCEPT:

They have disqualified all of the previous studies performed by calling them "historical documents".

From the web site
"If you are interested in historic documents, they are still available on the Historic Documents page. Please remember that these documents are for reference purposes only and no longer represent the new proposed action."

With this statement by the Navy, it could be argued that for the Navy to select any community under the old criteria is inappropriate as those constraints are for reference purposes only and do not represent the proposed action. Both Camden and Gates County were selected for FURTHER study for an OLF based on defunct data.

30,000 acres of land were about to be condemned by these historic documents, now they are not valid? An EIS that was to look 10 - 20 years into the future fell into "historical documentation" mode and "no longer represent the proposed action"? This is what NE NC is fighting.

Sicking.

The Navy should be forced to show the new proposed action data and then see if: the state still feels this site meets the criteria; does Camden and Gates County wish to be considered for inclusion on this project. The Navy is again going backwards regarding keeping the public informed.

This appears to prove that the Navy has already determined a desired outcome and is now making the documentation represent the new proposed action.

A serious question that I do not know the answer to, is the Navy still working within the NEPA both by written and spirit? Seems like they are not.

All, and I do mean ALL the previous documentation no longer meets the criteria to pick a site, much less to finalize 5 sites for further study. What was the criteria that enabled these sites to be chosen over what other sites?

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Con game underway

Submitted by James Protzman on Fri, 02/29/2008 - 9:50pm.

The Navy knows it doesn't actually have a case, which means we'll soon see the old consulting shuffle ... dazzling happy-talk and fancy footwork signifying nothing of substance or of value.

Thanks for keep an eye on these dogs, Parm.

This appears to prove that the Navy has already determined a desired outcome and is now making the documentation represent the new proposed action.

Now is the time for Jim Neal and Kay Hagan

Submitted by Linda on Sat, 03/01/2008 - 2:13am.

to chime in. This is one issue on which they should speak loudly with one voice. NO OLF. Not in NC. Anywhere.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi

Yes

Submitted by parmea on Sat, 03/01/2008 - 10:42am.

Every politician in NE NC should be making a stand on this issue.

Any person who wishes to lead the state senate or house(pro tem role) should also be making a stand concerning this.

As I have discussed before so will not restate. Save some reading time for folks.

An interesting reading

Submitted by parmea on Sat, 03/01/2008 - 10:40am.

From the 2005 BRAC deliberation concerning Oceana. Oceana and Fentress is discussed between pg 11 and 33.

I've been looking for this information for a while.

Much of my arguments are paralleled here.

MR. FETZER:
The issue regarding Oceana is driven primarily by the encroachment of the Navy's Atlantic fleet and the master jet base and Oceana's outlying training field located in Chesapeake, Virginia and the training and safety implications of that encroachment. Several scenarios were considered to determine if there was in fact a cost-effective and suitable alternative for resolving the encroachment of Oceana. The options ranged from temporary solutions to long-range, permanent solutions and the costs ranged from $180 million to $1.8 billion.

The staff obtained DOD certified COBRA estimates for each option. Among the alternatives considered were: moving all or some of the F-18 squadrons to other locations to relieve the noise impacts; finding an outlying field that could be expanded to a new master jet base in the future; relocating to a new greenfield site; and finally, relocating to a site that was closed by a previous BRAC round. Cecil Field was offered by the state of Florida and the case for Cecil Field was also investigated.

The evidence is clear that NAS Oceana operations are affected by the development pressures associated with the operation of the base at Oceana in the middle of a popular resort area. As you have heard during many hours of testimony and base visits, the encroachment issues have been addressed and managed by succeeding generations of base commanders and community leaders, with some successes, but at also some costs, including suboptimum training, constrained flight profiles, and finally the cost of a more remote outlying field for more realistic training.

Unabated encroachment affects the operational readiness of the fighter wings and will cost them even more when two F-18 Super Hornet squadrons stand up at Cherry Point in the future. They will be separated from the rest of the Navy's strike wings and operating with an additional maintenance and administrative overhead.
There is greater concern that the Joint Strike Fighter will be even noisier than the Super Hornet and may not be able to be hosted at Oceana if the encroachment is not halted or reversed.

More reading will continue to show that Oceana is not the future of naval aviation. Placing this second OLF is not even a bandaid.

No site in NC should be considered for a second OLF when VA is more concerned about money then about the safety of their own citizens. VA will not protect their citizens meaning that at some time in the near future, Oceana is going to sucumb to the inevitability of no longer being capable of performing the mission.

When people say you NO OLFers are unpatriotic or anti-Navy, I point to this fact that the pilots are not training properly at Oceana and Fentress now. All I want is for the Navy to fix the training deficiencies around Oceana first and make that base viable before coming to NC with their desire for a second OLF. If the Navy cannot bring Oceana/Fentress up to the same standards identified for this second OLF, then the Navy is admitting that Oceana cannot perform the mission and a new solution for carrier training should be found that does not include Oceana.

Further discussion states that Oceana and Fentress should be working at 600ft.

Safety and proper mission training are not achievable at Oceana so why should any site in NC be required to accept this OLF in our community?

The only concern I see is the argument of the second OLF becoming the next master jet base. Adm. Anderson put that to rest at the 18 Sept meeting when he stated this OLF is not for that purpose. Oceana is and will be around for a long time.

The encroachment around Oceana is costing the country dearly. In pilot readiness, pilot safety, people safety, quality of life for homeowners, quality of life for sailors, the potential quality of life for a NC community.

I do not see any positives in building this second OLF anywhere.

Even if you don't care about the OLF

Submitted by James Protzman on Sat, 03/01/2008 - 10:46am.

Please read Parmea's posts:

I do not see any positives in building this second OLF anywhere.

The bottom line is this:

1. The Navy has NO FREAKIN' IDEA what its long-range plans are. They've turned Oceana and Fentress (Virginia Beach) into an accident waiting to happen, and are operating there with a gun to their heads.

2. Nothing the Navy says can be trusted, either because they don't actually know what the future holds or because they're proven liars. They proved this in spades with the Washington County scam.

3. Destroying any part of North Carolina to build an OLF in the face of that level of uncertainty and misinformation is just plain stupid.

Comment from Daily Advance, Elizabeth City, 2-26-2008

Submitted by plain vanilla on Sat, 03/01/2008 - 10:51am.

It is so unjust that any county has to spend large sums of money to protect it's citizens from the very people who are suppose to be protecting them. Gates County is a poor rural county and should not have to spend their reserve money in such a manner, what will the county do if we have any type of emergency that requires funds? The people of Gates & Camden have surly showed their opposition to an OLF, and they have voiced this opposition to all state & local officials. Our Governor, and Senators haved stated publicly they will not support an OLF if there is broad local opposition. Well we have proved to them, all we have is opposition, We now need our Congressional Delegation and our Governor to take a stand and ask the Navy to remove Gates County from the Navy's consideration before this EIS (Environmental Impact Study) begins. We know they have the power to do so, if they would stop "passing the buck" and all take a stand that this OLF will not benefit these counties, or the state of North Carolina.We have heard their words, now we want real action, move forward so Gates or Camden doesn't have a need to contribute their funds that are there to help the citizens, not to be used as wasteful government spending.

http://www.dailyadvance.com/local/content/news/stories/2008/02/26/0226olfupdatejh.html
Gates may join Camden OLF fight
Gates citizens hire lawyer to fight airfield

With the Navy coming up with a new EIS

Submitted by parmea on Sat, 03/01/2008 - 12:19pm.

and making the old study defunct, now is the time for Dole Burr, Easly, Butterfield, W. Jones, Basnight, E. Jones, Owens to act...

There is NOT any current active plan for this OLF. Everything that happened before is invalid to include the rationale that put these two communities in NC on some list.

These officials have heard the words of the local communities as well as the local governments.

When the Navy does officially state they are going to start an NEPA process to determine if a second OLF is required and then if so, where to put it, we of NC need to say, not in NC until you make Oceana a viable master jet base.

Our representatives should be requesting a BRAC to determine, without politics being involved, what is needed for the east coast master jet base. Once the true need is found, then find the solution.

Right now is the time for this action.

Right now is the time to protect and provide the best and proper training for our pilots, safety for the people of Hampton Roads, and the communities of NC. If after a proper evaluation of the needs of the Navy are enumerated and it is found that with all the facilities under DOD control a second OLF is required, then the best place for this field should be selected.

Some will say that parm, your county is now safe....why are you being so caveler now? I have always stated that if the Navy proves they need this, I would shut up. To date, the Navy has not proven it and when they do a proper study of need, no county in NC will have to worry about an OLF in their community. That Oceana is beyond the ability to be corrected. That a solution for the east coast master jet base will not include Oceana.

That is my stance and opinion.

I am with the people of Gates County...

Submitted by JimNeal on Mon, 03/03/2008 - 5:01pm.

I've listened to the people of Gates County and they do not want the OLF in their community. They are justifiably outraged that the Navy has met with them or sought their opinion on this crucial matter. I oppose the Navy overriding the will of the people of North Carolina to locate the OLF where it is not wanted.

Jim, If I may take the liberty to make a suttle but important

Submitted by parmea on Mon, 03/03/2008 - 8:53pm.

change in your remarks.

They are justifiably outraged that the Navy has met with them or sought their opinion on this crucial matter.

I believe you wished to say has NOT met with ...

Based on the OLD study, this OLF was a want by the Navy. What will this new reassessed requirements bring? I bet all of a sudden this OLF will be a requirement.

For 8 years, the Navy has been trying to convince the people of North Carolina to allow them to place this OLF in the state.

NE North Carolina NEEDS to be removed from this process. This is turning into a political battle that is forcing people to take sides for or against our Navy. It should never have gotten to this point. When 2005 BRAC determined that Oceana is not the future of naval aviation, right then, this OLF should have stopped, and the Secretary of the Navy should have started looking for solutions to the Oceana situation.