Bob Barr To Swing NC For Barack Obama?

The Libertarian Party maneuvered the labyrinthine laws intended to exclude third parties from the NC ballot, having qualified for the November ballot by collecting over 70,000 signatures statewide. This is no small task, and we ought to congratulate those party-builders who are giving their all to create something new.

The good news is that there are a lot of registered Republicans and Reagan Democrats who can't stand John McCain and who have a huge libertarian streak in them. We have more than our fair share here in the mountain west. And the better news is that the Libertarian Party has a brand name candidate running for President, former Rep. Bob Barr of Georgia.

If Barr can pull Ron Paul sized numbers (7.2%) here in November, it could tip North Carolina into Obama's column.


In Sports! If you score 2 pts,& your competition scores 98!

It is consider a slaughter and the game should be call!

If Barr can pull Ron Paul sized numbers (7.2%) here in November, it could tip North Carolina into Obama's column*GS

Naw! President Obama has already got it! Bob will be lucky to get 2% in this state along with the Libertarian candiate for Governor. It's a democrat year no matter what some neo-con republican conservatives or want to be libertarians think?

Maybe for governor too

Munger's on the ballot against Perdue and McCoal, though it's harder to predict who he'll draw from. Anyone who follows Mike's campaign closely knows he's an enigma - more progressive than most Democrats in North Carolina, but with a few wild hairs that will endear him to the lunatic right fringe. For better or for worse, most people won't actually take the time to know what he stands for and will be attracted to the Libertarian banner in a knee-jerk kind of way. That'll peel off R's who don't like that McCoal's been shilling for Big Energy his entire career.

Reality is not Munger Strong Point in Politics?

Munger's on the ballot against Perdue and McCoal, though it's harder to predict who he'll draw from. Anyone who follows Mike's campaign closely knows he's an enigma - more progressive than most Democrats in North Carolina, but with a few wild hairs that will endear him to the lunatic right fringe. For better or for worse, most people won't actually take the time to know what he stands for and will be attracted to the Libertarian banner in a knee-jerk kind of way. That'll peel off R's who don't like that McCoal's been shilling for Big Energy his entire career* James

True! Unless Munger and the Libertarian Party has stashed 12 million dollars in Gold for their so-called educational campaign, they are history in a Democrat landside and will be trying to fiqure out why they didn't get that 2% number to be on the ballot in 2012. By November! People will be so piss about the price of Gas and Food, they will be blaming it on some Libertine Strip Club in downtown Durham, Named the " Golden Rich White Republican Boys Nude Club"

It's still a victory to get on the ballot.

I think it's even more of a victory that people can now register as Libertarian. It gives me hope for the Greens.

Starting today, voters will be able to register as Libertarians and Libertarian candidates chosen by the party will be put on the fall election ballot.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Establishment Victory Ballot Politics?

It's still a victory to get on the ballot.*Linda

In Sports and politics! Victory is when one team wins the Super Bowl. There is no such thing as 2nd place. I believe that a once famous Sports Manager in Baseball once said that nice guys always finish last.

The first rule of War is to have total victory so you won't have to fight another one. However! That theory has proven to be a big lie or myth in history. A ancient Roman historial once warn that when Rome is a war against the Barbarians, our constitutional liberties and rights are always at risk since the leaders of war want to be our dictators in the future.

Sounds like he knew the Bush neo-cons would steal our constitution and rights if they could find a phony excuse for our unconstitutional war against terrorism.

I think it's even more of a victory that people can now register as Libertarian. It gives me hope for the Greens..*Linda

The Greens are box in since the Democrat establishment will always outlawyer them off the ballot by massive legal costs to the poor Greens.

I can hope, Max.

I've been a Democrat all my life - but I think smaller groups should have access to the ballot. I think it would be healthy for the Democratic Party if the Green Party was recognized.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Hope is always Postive Linda! Never give up!

I think it would be healthy for the Democratic Party if the Green Party was recognized* Linda

Yes! We understand and making all the efforts to help them everywhere. Our reach is wide and far in the political circles for ballot postion. See below information to run " Madame Justices" everywhere!!!!

Suggestions to Kathy from Rachel‏ aka Madame Justice

From: Connie Berry ( aka Max

Sent: Thu 3/27/08 9:44 PM

RE: From your friend Kathy in Chicago‏
From: Rachel Hunter (
Sent: Thu 3/27/08 9:26 PM
To: Connie Berry (;

Send to Kathy – add your own thoughts. Yours are probably better than mine. so she may as well say what she believes in her heart

First part is ok – change part about saying what Durbin is – say Durbin says he is force for change. Durbin says he is progressive. Durbin says he is for peace.

However, Durbin says one thing to get elected. What Durbin does is very different. Durbin has shown that he is a member of the establishment. He will say whatever he deems the voters want to hear (did he not make a gaffe and then retracted it? it was a stupid comment, might even have been true, in which case he never should have said he was sorry). He says he is for peace, but he has voted continuously to fund the war (he probably voted against impeachment too).

I’m different. First and foremost, bring troops home. 6 months is too long – I would vote to bring them home NOW. Today. I would make departure orderly, but I would hope to have them all out as soon as possible.

Second, I am concerned about the economy. Lead into green environmental stuff but phrase it in terms of the economy. If nothing else this war has taught us we can no longer be dependent on foreign oil. We need to wisely use our own resources – for example in continuously sunny areas, put up solar panels. Cost got you worried? Fear not. Savings from the trillions we are wasting in Iraq and Afghanistan will pay for it. Government is to serve the people. Not people serve their government.

Third - problem is ok but the Green Youth conjures up visions of Hitler’s Nazi youth party. There has to be a way to re-phrase. Say something like too many young men, particularly minority young males, whether they are black, white, Hispanic or of other ethnicity, are either the victims of crime or are warehoused in places we call jails. We need to give these young men education and a sense of purpose, not jail time. We need to end the cycle of violence. I propose that they be given an education and opportunity (explain the concept of the green youth movement here.

Fourth – other issues – health, environment. Don’t sound like big brother dictating how one should live but explain why being green saves money, stimulates the economy, leads to better health and makes good sense

I care – that is why I am doing this – for your children and grandchildren. If I don’t do as promised, you have the power to vote me out. I’d be honored to be your next senator but I need your help. Won’t you join me?


From: Connie Berry [] aka Max
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 7:00 PM
To: Rachel Hunter
Subject: From your friend Kathy in Chicago

Kathy's stump speech, what do you think?‏

Kathy Cummings (

Thu 3/27/08 7:39 PM

To: aka Max

I'm Kathy Cummings from Chicago, mother to two daughters and grandmother to two grandsons. I retired from teaching in the Chicago Public Schools 1 ½ years ago. I ran with the Green Party for St. Rep in Dist 4 in 2006, but was denied ballot access by the Democrats. We took our case all the way up to the IL Supreme Court and still was denied ballot access.

This election I'm running to unseat Richard Durbin.

Senator Durbin has been a dynamic force for change. He's progressive. I find very little that he hasn't done in support of the Democrat agenda. But that's not our agenda. Durbin, by the way, says he wants peace and has voted to fund the war each time a funding vote comes up.

I'm calling for a different view of government. One that intimately involves environmental progressives and radical social change.

The things I would like to change are: to end Bush's war and bring the troops home. I'd also like to fight poverty and pollution at the same time.

First, I propose we completely withdraw U.S. military forces from both Iraq and Afghanistan in 6 months.

Starting after the election, 1/6 of U.S. troops will withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan by the end of the first month. They may not be re-deployed to either Afghanistan or Iraq. An equal or greater number of troops will be withdrawn from both countries each month for the next five months, leaving zero U.S. forces deployed in either country by the end of six months.

Second, We are in the middle of an ecological crisis as well as a social crisis, between rich and poor.

Our government has to choose to go with the problem-solvers rather than the problem-makers. Problem-makers are the polluters, warmongers, the incarcerators, the public and private prison industry, and warmongers. Examples of problem-solvers are the teachers, coaches, counselors, scout leaders, solar engineers, and people who grow organically.

I propose we train urban youth of color in a Green Youth Corp to retrofit U.S. cities to make them environmentally sustainable. Training them is less expensive than sending them to prison. The fast growing green business sector, which is a $230 billion a year growing industry, can then hire the 80% of people who haven't been able to afford eating organically, driving hybrids, and buying solar voltaic and wind generators.

When newly trained workers are working in green businesses for fair wages and benefits, their self-esteems will be enhanced and they will emotionally and financially support the new green economy. They won't be driving polluting cars to polluting jobs while struggling to buy at Wal-Mart. It's a win/win/win/win situation.

We need to recycle what we've got, get the government to work with us to weatherproof millions of homes and buildings, build more sustainable energy systems using solar and wind, and grow more of our own organic food locally, in community Children's Gardens. We need to live more sustainably and fairly with the rest of humanity and sentient beings on the planet. Let's make the US a world leader in clean, sustainable, renewable energy, and live in peace.

I hold truth as a personal identity. If you nominate me for the senate candidate for the Green Party I will take your trust in me seriously, serving you as honestly as I can. If I fail you in any way I fail myself and what we commonly believe in.

Thank you for your attention and consideration of me as the Green Party senate candidate.

Connie, what do you think of this slogan?

Kathy Cummings for US Senate,

she walks her talk and can't be bought!


Weird Polls from Men in Black II?

Even that struck me as a bizarre, considering the primary results. Oh well, just something to add to the discussion* captsfufp

No doubt! The weird polls were done by a secret group of McCain Republicans and Hillary husband.

As far as I can tell, only SUSA shows that...

Survey USA is the only poll showing her beating McCain here. They seemed to be very accurate early this year, but they were off in their final predictions in the NC primary. (they underestimated Obama's lead by almost 10 points). I think their survey sampling is way off.

Honestly though, with the way things are going, I think in November any democrat has a chance in NC in almost any race. Now excuse me while I go fill my gas tank at $4.00/gallon.

Barr! Barr?

Dear Friends: Mike Munger here, at the Libertarian National Convention in Denver, Colorado.

It is NOT a foregone conclusion that Bob Barr will get the nomination, not by a long shot. The debates are tomorrow, the nominations are Sunday, and the delegate vote is Sunday afternoon.

A very interesting and contentious process. There are quite a few "name" candidates, at least by our standards.

And, I was fortunate enough to give the first part of the "Two-headed Keynote Address." Details here, if you are interested....and consider the audience, before you go flaming me.

"It is to secure our rights that we resort to government at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francois D'Ivernois, 1795.

Michael C. Munger

Munger! Munger! Get out before you hurt yourself?

....and consider the audience, before you go flaming me.* Great American Hero without his flying Cape

Listen! Richard and Bob is not a Ron Paul! Now that I think of it? Neither are all three a Jesse Ventura.

When you get back! We have arranged a Smackdown match with Ventura since that uniform will draw mobs to your 2% campaign

Munger! Munger! Use the Cape to fly home?

Great American Hero! Forget the Smackdown with Ventura! We just a receive a memo from Delta Airlines.

Are you aware that it costs 300 hundred thousand dollars to fuel up a very big airplane from Denver to Raleigh on a one way flight. A year ago, it cost 147 thousand dollars. Using new age Republican and Democrat Government math with with a 60% labor cost along with a 30% fuel cost, which brings the grand total to a 10% gross profit, not counting Aircraft lease costs, employee pension costs, Parking meter costs for the plane at RTD while it awaits for more passagers, tiping the head baggage handler, TSA labor costs for security and the Homeland Security dudes, who hids behind the pay phones at the Airport. It appears that you just might be screw along with the rest of the Libertarian party on the return trip, since the total trip revenue for the plane is 900 thousand dollars. Clearly! One can see how the War against terrorism is working like a charm in Free Market politics.

Hehe Mike.....

...and consider the audience, before you go flaming me.

You didn't pander to the audience, did you Mike? :D

If that's the case, maybe we should be flattered that you sound so sane here.

Robin Hayes lied. Nobody died, but thousands of folks lost their jobs.

Vote Democratic! The ass you save may be your own.

No flames. It is in your political interest to speak as you did.

Just as it is in the political interest of a congressperson to bring as much pork as possible back to the home district.

But neither is entirely honest.

... Democrats and Republicans are interested in real people. And fleas are interested in real dogs. We don’t elect them dog-catcher, though.

I could easily run a list of accomplishments that Democrats have achieved over the last 40+ years or so that Republicans cannot match.

Yes there are times that Dems "play the game", but we do make an effort to do the right thing and do what is needed for the country. Republicans today are nearly all about power, corporate greed, and legislating morality.

Lumping D's and R's together serves your political purpose, but I do resent it.

It's really not that big a deal though. I take it to be your version of "playing the game", and makes you a "flea" as well.

Person County Democrats

I actively oppose gerrymandering. Do you?

Just an observation, Mike

Millions of taxpayers have the same expression that cow had, every April 15th. And for the SAME REASON!

I'm not trying to speak for cows in general, as I'm sure they have their own opinions about such things. But if you were to give me a choice between a turkey baster and a 900 lb. horny bull, that's pretty much a no-brainer.

The moral to that is: that cow is going to get f**ked by something, as are the taxpayers. Libertarians would have us believe that our lives would be the same (or more prosperous) in the absence of a strong central government and the taxes it collects, but that dream starts to come apart and turn into a nightmare when you look at individual benefits/services that would be lost.

As I've said before, there are numerous examples worldwide of the consequences of a weak central government. You could go ask some of these folks what they think, but you might want to take some food and blankets if you want to get their attention.

Barr and Anti-Barr Libertarian Convention, Party changes Name?

Live from the LP Convention: Barr and Anti-Barr

Bob Barr Supporter in Michael Munger Uniform?

Posted on May 24, 2008, 12:34pm | David Weigel

I joined a few other journalists this morning for coffee with Bob Barr. (Stacy McCain's coverage is here.) I asked whether the radical side of the party would lose its home and influence if Barr was the nominee.
The Libertarian Party is a surprisingly diverse group of folks. There are different factions, certainly. But one thing I've been surprised at is that there is a, certainly not unanimous, but very broad, level of interest of the need to organize itself as a party, to deliver a message as a political party, and an understanding that we need to reach out to voters. Not just libertarian voters per se, but a broad array of voters. The only way to do that is to present a message that is both understood by the average voter, and with which the average voter is comfortable.

I also asked why Barr didn't sign the Libertarians for Justice 9/11 investigation pledge.
Some candidates will sign whatever is put in front of them if they think it will get them votes. I don't operate that way. I'm not interested in re-hashing what's gone on before. Certainly, as a former prosecuter, if anybody brings me legitimate evidence that a crime has been committed, certainly that would be duly investigated by the DOJ. But I'm not interested in conspiracy theories. I'm interested in moving the country forward.

In the convention hall, anonymous anti-Barrites have passed out two attack papers to most of the seats. The first is a faux message from the distant future... May 26, when the party's nominee will have been chosen.
LNC Votes to Change Party Name to "New Republican Party."

DENVER - In a surprise move, the Libertarian National Committee voted today to change their party's name to "New Republican Party." When asked why, newly-elected National Chair Aaron Starr explained that the change was made to "gain credibility" and "get more people elected to office. It's all about getting elected."

The party's presidential candidate, Bob Barr, offered additional insights. "After eliminating all the controversial, scary language from our platform, we decided we might as well change the party's name as well. I plan to campaign on a strong platform fighting Islamo-Fas... uh, narco-terrorists, enforcing oppressive laws at the state, rather than the Federal level, closing our borders and working for a national sales tax. These are traditional Republican issues, and I just know that John McCain isn't a true conservative, so I believe we can pick up a lot of Republican votes by making this change. I've already spoken with several of my former Republican colleagues, and I expect several of them to announce their switch to the New Republican Party in the next few days.

Barr's running mate, Las Vegas oddsmaker Wayne Root, chimed in by saying "I'm so glad our party recognizes the need to appeal to traditional Republican voters who are fed up with the GOP, at least for now. I now feel completely at home in this party."

The other attack sheet is titled "LP: Please Don't Lower the Barr!" is much longer, and attacks Barr as a non-Libertarian. This part stood out to me.
Ron Paul in a Republican primary took 10 percent of the vote. This number likely included many Democrats and independents who would never support Barr, as well as Republicans who will not want to "waste their vote" in a general election, but to give Barr the benefit of the doubt, suppose he can take 10 percent of the Republican vote. He will take close to 0 percent of the Democrats and perhaps 5 percent of the independents. This is a best-case scenario. So, let's reject from the outset the argument that Barr is the best chance to win the election. Even if he is, it doesn't matter, since he can't win.

Obviously, 10 percent of the GOP vote and 5 percent of independents, if 2008 voter identification matched up with 2004 identification would make up 3.7 percent and 1.3 percent of the total vote: Five times more than any Libertarian has ever received. Remember, this is from the anti-Barr forces.

There's a lot of evidence that tonight's debate will be make-or-break for Barr, a chance to convince radicals and waverers that he has atoned for his sins. But there's a little evidence he's making conversions, too. Remember Sherman Ball?

Bob Barr For Spoiler


"The former Georgia congressman said he’s not in the race to be a spoiler.

“I’m a competitor and I’m in this to win. I do not view the role of the Libertarian Party to be a spoiler and I certainly have no intention of being a spoiler,” Barr said.

Barr said he expects the party to be on the ballot in at least 48 states and perhaps all 50 if the party can qualify in West Virginia and Oklahoma. Barr said he also expects to be invited to the national political debates by qualifying with poll support of 15 percent or more of registered voters."

Scrutiny Hooligans -

"I'm not a spoiler and I expect 15% of the votes."

Just a fair warning to those Democrats here who have a soft spot for third-party movements: you can expect to see some harsh criticisms of Barr (and others) from some of us here, for a couple of reasons.

The first reason (for me) is philosophical, as I feel the few valuable ideas/positions in their platform are flattened under the crush of fantasy and naive irresponsibility. But since these traits are easily recognizable by most of the electorate, we are not likely to see them implemented anytime soon.

Which leads me to my second (and more important) reason: the recruitment of disillusioned Democrats at a time when every single vote is crucial in reversing the damage done by this administration. The continued fight between Clinton and Obama has potentially alienated a healthy chunk of our party, and having a third-party candidate on the ballot gives these folks an easy, guilt-free option based on absolutely nothing but emotion.

Everybody needs to remain focused on the following: a John McCain Presidency would be catastrophic.

good luck on Oklahoma

Their rules for ballot access are even worse than ours. They are currently ranked #1 for most onerous rules. We are #3, behind Georgia.

"jump in where you can and hang on"
Briscoe Darling to Sheriff Andy


Would be interesting to know if the new Bob Barr is willing to publicly renounce the old Bob Barr. Or perhaps he's just another Christianist Republican in Libertarian clothing.

The Village Voice interviewed him.

he said the old Bob Barr had a federalist view of the world that was not at odds with his new libertarian label. ::Linda frowns at more cognitive dissonance:: I still think he's an ass.

Also, the Ron Paul evolution is going to vote for him. Or so he thinks.

Be the change you wish to see in the world. --Gandhi
Pointing at Naked Emperors

Mary Ruart refused to be considered for the Vice slot

with Barr at the head of the ticket although she came in second in final balloting. One of the other candidates who lost the in first balloting called Barr a Neocon when interviewed after her concession speech. She pleaded with the other delegates to not vote for Barr.

I think it is an interesting move on Barr's part to have cornered that possibly 15% of the votes with as little as it took to get himself the Libertarian nomination. No big campaigning on his part.

Progressive Democrats of North Carolina

She didn't come in second

Looks like "refuse to vote" came in second.

"jump in where you can and hang on"
Briscoe Darling to Sheriff Andy

Who cares? Big Brown will win the Libertarian Race?

Looks like "refuse to vote" came in second*TMD

Yep! But Bob and his little team of advisers had already rigged the VP choice weeks ago. I consider the present course of the Libertarian Party in the National Election will not affect the coming Democrat Presidental Landside over Loony McCain and what is left of the Republican congress. Of course one has to consider the old martial law trick should there be another fake 9/11 before November and we still have Bush and Cheney. These are not political normal times in this country anymore.

There's Never a Good Time

For strategic partisans to ever say, "Now's a good time to bring a third party online", would require a flaccid opposition and a non-threatening newcomer. We've got both in this occasion, and if disillusioned Dems will go over to arch-conservative Barr, then our problem is deeper than we'd imagined. It's Republicans who are stunned by Bush's failures and the utter cognitive dissonance represented by John McCain. They want someone else to vote for. Someone who is a "real conservative".

Barr for President is good for Democrats this cycle.

Further, more parties make for more competition. The Democrats and Republicans will both improve as parties if they have to carve out their positions more clearly over time.

Scrutiny Hooligans -